Suggested reading, how old is too old, and might I be looking for a unicorn? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Deacon Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 393
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 4 Posts
Question Suggested reading, how old is too old, and might I be looking for a unicorn?

Hi all, I am doing my pre-purchase homework and purchased and read "Havanese" by Diane Klumb and Joanne Baldwin. Are there other books I should read? (General Havanese ownership, not going to breed).

I am open to purchasing a retired show dog or perhaps a dog that does not fit in someone's breeding program. What is a reasonable age window for such a Havanese?

And lastly, I read that HCA has a 4 Star Award for dogs that pass BAER, CERF, OFA Hips and Patellar Luxation. Is that a reasonable baseline for me as far as the purchase of an adult?

To answer those that might question my standards, about 30 years I had a beautiful German Shepherd named Remington euthanized in my arms at 18 months. He had severe hip dysplasia and in his final days could barely move. I can remember it like it happened an hour ago.

I am in the Pacific NW but understand I may need to travel. Please feel free to PM me with any suggestions. Thanks very much.

Thanks for any input regarding my questions.
Deacon Blues is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 09:30 AM
Senior Member
 
misstray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fort St. John, BC
Posts: 2,113
Submit Photo: 2
Photo Submissions 10 Times in 10 Posts
Put out by the Havanese Fanciers of Canada (the Canadian Havanese Club). It's a very complete grooming handbook and recommended by TONS of people.

From Nose to Tail

http://www.havanesefanciers.com/nosetotailbook/

Tracy and Brody


A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself.
- Josh Billings
misstray is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 08:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Suzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: West Linn Oregon
Posts: 4,845
Submit Photo: 21
Photo Submissions 40 Times in 40 Posts
I have a few friends in Oregon that sometimes have retired show dogs. Where do you live? PS I just read posts and ask questions so I don't have any books to contribute.

Maddie at 5mo old
Suzi is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Deacon Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 393
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzi View Post
I have a few friends in Oregon that sometimes have retired show dogs. Where do you live?
Hi Suzi, I'm in Kirkland, WA which is just east across the lake from Seattle, so Oregon is great.

I will PM you my email address. Thanks very much.
Deacon Blues is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 05:40 AM
Senior Member
 
tra_po's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 396
Submit Photo: 10
Photo Submissions 6 Times in 6 Posts
For Havanese-Specific - I have From Nose to Tail, Havanese: The Essential Guide for the Havanese Lover (Patricia B. McRae Ph.D.) and Havanese: A Complete Owner's Manual - A Barron's Book. I read so many books when considering - and then bringing home - Ludo that they're running together somewhat. I didn't find any of them (outside of Nose to Tail) particularly groundbreaking or anything I couldn't find through Google but I enjoy reading a Havanese-specific anything. I did like that they both address the diet - raw included - moderately comprehensively.

I want to add I lost my beloved Japanese Chin in August 2013. I was unpacking and organizing our Christmas decorations yesterday and came across his stocking with his name embroidered on it. I literally felt the wind knocked out of me. It seems like every day something reminds me but this one hit really hard. The kids and I decided we'd write letters every year about our memories of him and things he's missed and put them in there and hope they'll get to heaven. My point being I relate to your sentiments about Remington so much. I, too, had him die in my arms and there are moments I can just about feel the weight of him in my arms from that day... Ugh... I'm sorry to be such a downer. Just know someone out there feels for you and wishes you well. You would not go wrong with a Havanese. Ludo has healed my family.

Traci & Ludo

*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*

The dog becomes your dream come true, the very thing you wanted.
- Maurice Sendack


Last edited by tra_po; 11-26-2013 at 05:40 AM. Reason: spelling error
tra_po is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Deacon Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 393
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thank you both for the recommendation of "From Nose To Tail". I would love to be able to competently groom the dog I get, and though it's hard for me to fathom at this point - I had to order the book because it does look excellent and will give me the opportunity to see if it's something I think I can manage.

I just returned from flying with a friend in his private plane. He asked me if I'd like to take the controls for a while. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea as I am not a pilot. He said there was no trouble I could get us in at 25,000 feet that he couldn't fix.

I live about just under two blocks away from a grooming shop. If I'm fortunate, they feel the same way - there's no bad haircut they couldn't fix.

And tra_po, so very sorry to hear about the loss your Japanese Chin. I know so well about feeling them in your arms as they leave this world. I was wearing my favorite coat at the with Remi. I could never wear it again but I could never throw it out.
Deacon Blues is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 03:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Karen Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Williston, SC
Posts: 544
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 9 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post


I am open to purchasing a retired show dog or perhaps a dog that does not fit in someone's breeding program. What is a reasonable age window for such a Havanese?

Breeders will retire dogs at different ages for different reasons. Girls retire before boys for obvious reasons. You may be able to get a nice girl after she's had 3 or more litters. Age could be approx. 5-7 yrs. Sometimes a breeder will "run a dog on" to see how they mature before adding them to their program. They usually know by age 2 yrs whether they will keep for breeding. So, that's a way to get a younger dog if you are willing to wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
And lastly, I read that HCA has a 4 Star Award for dogs that pass BAER, CERF, OFA Hips and Patellar Luxation. Is that a reasonable baseline for me as far as the purchase of an adult?
IMO minimum health tests on a Havanese should be BAER (hearing), hips, patellas, heart, and CERF. OFA will issue a CHIC number if a dog has had 3 or more tests, must incl. hips. There are other tests you can perform, but are optional. Some like a bile acid test. IMO this is only necessary if you are producing liver shunts or have liver shunts behind the dog. My Hav came from a line that doesn't produce liver shunts, so I don't test for that. Plus a dog with liver issues would likely be sick long before she would be bred, so the test is a bit unnecessary. Also, I wouldn't get a dog without soap pics of their front side and rear. The majority of the health problems in a Havanese stems from dwarfism (chondrodysplasia). So, you can be relatively safe if your dog has nice straight legs. disclaimer: not all Havs with bowed legs have chondrodysplasia.

Keep in mind BAER is the only test a breeder can perform on a young puppy. So you're actually looking at what tests have been performed on the breeding parents. Good luck!


Karen Collins ~ Heartsong Havanese

http://heartsonghavanese.com









Karen Collins is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 03:49 PM
Member
 
Sumirra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Montgomery County, PA
Posts: 52
Submit Photo: 1
Photo Submissions 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tra_po View Post
I want to add I lost my beloved Japanese Chin in August 2013. I was unpacking and organizing our Christmas decorations yesterday and came across his stocking with his name embroidered on it. I literally felt the wind knocked out of me. It seems like every day something reminds me but this one hit really hard. The kids and I decided we'd write letters every year about our memories of him and things he's missed and put them in there and hope they'll get to heaven. My point being I relate to your sentiments about Remington so much. I, too, had him die in my arms and there are moments I can just about feel the weight of him in my arms from that day... Ugh... I'm sorry to be such a downer. Just know someone out there feels for you and wishes you well. You would not go wrong with a Havanese. Ludo has healed my family.
Traci, I got choked up reaading this... this will be our first Christmas without Mirra. what a sweet idea to keep the memories alive.
and to the OP... best of luck in your search for the right dog. I can vouch for the havanese... they are the brightest, funniest, friendliest dogs i have ever met.
..sue

~Sue
Sumirra is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Deacon Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 393
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen Collins View Post
Also, I wouldn't get a dog without soap pics of their front side and rear.
How does one ask respectfully for soap pics? I would definitely like to see them but and want to sound educated, but not like a "newbie know it all" because I read a couple of books.

See if my assumptions are reasonable: one dog I've been offered is a retired AKC Champion. Is it fair to assume he didn't get by all those judges with horrible structure? He title is of no import to me except that it might demonstrate he conforms well to the standard. Soap pics would be an inappropriate request in this case?

At what point are you demonstrating ignorance, and what point are you insulting the breeder? I'll own the ignorance but don't need to insult anybody.
Deacon Blues is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 05:46 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,472
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 296 Times in 294 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
How does one ask respectfully for soap pics? I would definitely like to see them but and want to sound educated, but not like a "newbie know it all" because I read a couple of books.

See if my assumptions are reasonable: one dog I've been offered is a retired AKC Champion. Is it fair to assume he didn't get by all those judges with horrible structure? He title is of no import to me except that it might demonstrate he conforms well to the standard. Soap pics would be an inappropriate request in this case?

At what point are you demonstrating ignorance, and what point are you insulting the breeder? I'll own the ignorance but don't need to insult anybody.
I know there are some breeders who at "insulted" if you ask for soaps on ANY dog. I'd find a different breeder. And there are dogs with their championships who don't have the straightest legs. All that fluff covers a lot of sins. Whether a dog that had their championships would have crooked ENOUGH legs to be a problem in a pet is another story. You wouldn't want to breed one like this, but that is not your intent. I wouldn't buy a dog without seeing soaps, because my dogs work hard in performance sports. Straight legs are sound legs. But there are lots and LOTS of dogs with pretty significantly crooked legs who do absolutely fine for long and happy lives in pet homes.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
Reply

Tags
4 star , adult , hca

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome