Buying from Good Breeder Vs. Rescue Puppy Mill Dog - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Buying from Good Breeder Vs. Rescue Puppy Mill Dog

Hello, I have been lurking around this forum since I bailed on going through with getting a Hav back in the Spring and Summer. You were all so helpful, but for whatever reason, I just wasn't ready. Turns out I'm now ready, despite the major bummer of winter potty training, and I have found several good breeders, at least one of which who has puppies ready to go home sometime around Thanksgiving or a little later. We may be going today to see them, and if not today, then next weekend.

I have found that almost everyone (friends & family) I mention this to, that I'm planning to *buy* a purebred from a breeder at some level kind of wags the finger of shame at me for not adopting a rescue. That was my original intent, also, and I tried it and failed with a dog earlier in the year. Partly because I really chose the wrong breed combo (before I knew about Havs, fell in love and realized a Hav was the perfect match for us), and partly because she had many, many issues I was unaware of ahead of time and knew I was unprepared to deal with.

The breeder we are hoping to see today actually took in a 1 1/2 yr. old rescue recently and is fostering her, she was given up by a family that lost her home, though from the sounds of it, I don't think she was being well cared for prior to being surrendered. She was going to be my first consideration, but it turns out she is having major difficulties with potty training, it looks like no one ever taught her and she is not learning well. I'm not sure I am up to that task if she'd have a continuing problem, and I know it would bother my husband. She's also very shy, though that could change with time. The breeder wants to get her spayed and have her checked out medically, then work with her longer before finding just the right home for her.

I'm really torn. God bless everyone who helps these poor dogs, but I am not sure I want to sign up for the possible health and temperament issues, since it looks like the majority of Hav rescues (on Petfinder, anyway) are puppy mill dogs. I know there are seizures at some mills, but I've also read that they are often bought at auction by the rescue groups - is that true? As much as I understand the desire and motivation to save individual dogs, aren't they then just seen as customers by the millers and encourage more mill breeding?

The decision I came to was that I just want the best chance at a healthy, even-tempered dog from a responsible breeder who will be there for coaching, and once I get my feet wet with care and training again, I might consider fostering or adopting in the future. I also routinely make donations to animal shelters and rescues, but I'm still feeling guilty that I'm not doing the right thing.

What do you think? I'm surprised at how many mill rescues I'm seeing on Petfinder who are Havanese - are they likely to have heartbreaking and expensive health issues later, or emotional and temperament problems that can't really be healed? I know some of you have found great dogs this way, but it seems like a gamble....though I know there are no guarantees even with a well bred dog. I'm feeling quite conflicted today...
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 10:02 AM
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Have you checked Havanese Rescue by any chance? I too would be concerned aobut possible health problems as well as other problems that my crop up. I think that's why if you do get a rescue, you should do it from a reputable place such as Havanese Rescue where they take the dogs in and make sure they are ready to be adopted before actually putting them up for adoption. They are also honest about what problems the rescue might have.

If you can find a good rescue, I am positive that you can find a very loving and healthy Hav. As Caesar Milan says, dogs live in the present, so I do think that with patience even emotional problems can be solved.

I'm sure there are owners on this site who have gotten a rescue who can add to it more than I.

Chances are if your parents never had kids...you won't either...
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 10:11 AM
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hello and welcome, Petaluna. It sounds to me like you have made a thoughtful and honest assessment of your needs and desires re: owning a dog. It is indeed very tempting to take home the rescue dog from the breeder's, especially when you are being subjected to social pressure , but I think you should follow your own best instincts and buy a healthy puppy from the breeder now, and sometime down the road in the future perhaps consider a rescue.

I adore my Havanese with all my heart~~he is simply the best thing that has ever happened to us! ;-) He is a pure joy and was easy to potty train . I personally could not live with an animal with serious potty training and perhaps even major personality issues at 1 1/2 years and do not recommend that you go that route with your first Hav. Having been a Forum member for awhile, I've noticed that the single most frustrating problem for an owner is a dog with potty training issues. It simply isn't something that most people can tolerate in their homes on a daily basis. Owning a dog is a complete committment and very time-consuming in the best of circumstances. You do not need to start out with an animal with major negatives, if you are already having doubts. That is not the dog for you, it is the dog for someone who already has a Havanese or two, and plenty of breed experience and patience.

I don't mean at all to discourage anyone from adopting a rescue dog. I want to adopt everyone whose photo I see! My heart just breaks for them. My next Hav will hopefully be one. But that's because now I know the breed and have experience as a dog owner.

Please stick with your guns on this. Ignore the criticisms (none of their business!) and pick out a lovely puppy for yourself and enjoy every minute.
All the best, amy



HAV A GREAT DAY ! ~~AMY & BISCUIT~~
and HEATH-Y, TOO !

Last edited by Amy R.; 10-26-2008 at 10:22 AM.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for weighing in you guys. I guess I should go with my gut on this one. I do see the possibility of fostering in the future, but right now I kind of know my limits, and I know my husband's, too. He is not really a dog person, though I know he will fall in love. What would be hard for him is a major barker, marking behavior, or a dog that can't get the hang of not using the whole house for a toilet, all of which I feel pretty confident I can train if I have a good start with a very young dog. I have done it once before with my yorkie of 15years, she was a smart little girl. I got her at around 11 weeks, and the puppy stage was a challenge for sure, but I liked that she never knew anything but love from humans, and I didn't have to help her un-learn previous bad habits. While the puppy stage was definitely challenging, the fact that she was kind of a blank slate was helpful in some ways.

I'd definitely be open to the right older rescue dog, or even a puppy, it's just that I don't have a good candidate in front of me right now, but I do think I have a puppy who might be "meant" for me, if there is such a thing.

Meanwhile as I type this, one of my squirrel "regulars" is out on the deck giving me the eye, wondering why I'm not coming out with the gourmet nuts. They've been a pet substitute the past 4 years, but I am trying to wean the critters off the daily buffet, since I'll be getting a puppy soon and not sure I want to encourage them anymore. You know, squirrel poo and parasites, fleas, etc.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 10:39 AM
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Petaluna, I give you kudos for having looked honestly at your own circumstances and life style. For your first dog, I think you are making the best choice. Any dog you own will cost you money, there are no guarantees on any of them, but you do raise you chances of having problems with an older dog whose background isn't ideal. You don't want to take on a dog out of charity, them have to ultimately either turn them back in, or confine them away from your family for the rest of their lives. How sad that would be. I think that your idea of having the breeder's full support and mentoring is the best way to go. It also sounds like that is what she is sensing with the 1 1/2 year old--it is going to take some time and work, then the right family for her.

Go with your carefully thought out conclusions. Rescue down the road, if it feels right then. Your husband is very important in this equation, too...sounds like he doesn't want the long standing housebreaking issues, and that would be very difficult on a marriage if you wanted the dog enough to risk it and he didn't.

Have fun!

Sheri
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 10:44 AM
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I have to agree with Amy. Rescuing is definitely a gift of the heart but might not be for everyone. Just as there are those in the church who go to far away mission fields and those who serve at the local soup kitchens, who is anyone to judge and say one is better than the other? Perhaps monetary contributions to the local rescue society and spending time giving love to pets up for adoption is more your calling! After an unsuccessful experience with a rescue you may be due for a hopefully positive experience this time before trying rescue again. Believe me (and so many others in this forum) chances are you will suffer from MHS at some time!

A good breeder will be able to help you get get a puppy with a good personality match and provide support. But also don't forget that each puppy potty trains at their own unpredictable pace!

You are so lucky that you have found available puppies and that you found this forum!

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 10:49 AM
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Wink

I am such a slow typist! You will be surprised how Dhs fall for Havanese! A friend of mine's husband said that he loved God, his Havanese and his family- in that order! Not sure, but that seems like a good thing!

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petaluna View Post
The decision I came to was that I just want the best chance at a healthy, even-tempered dog from a responsible breeder ...
I don't think arguments about the benefits/drawbacks or facts/reality of rescue dogs - be they puppies adults - really matter here. I think you need to trust yourself - after much thought, you've reached the decision that is best for you. Just trust yourself and forget about everyone else's opinion. You, not everyone with an opinion, will be the one raising this dog as a part of your family. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer - just what's best for you.

GOOD LUCK!

Jill - Tess & Cody's mom
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hey Jill, thanks a bunch. You know my whole silly whole saga better than anybody. Apparently a break away from obsessing about it was just what I needed.

Unfortunately we can't see the puppies today because the breeder has a family emergency, but we are planning for a week from today, next Sunday. I was debating about whether to go ahead and send a deposit, sight unseen. I am still pretty set on a female, and this litter I guess has just 3 pups, 2 females and a male. There is someone else coming a day before me who so far has her heart set on the cream female, but no commitments yet, so she will probably have first choice. There is also a black female, and I was not leaning one way or the other, but often find myself drawn to black and darker colored Haves even though it's easier to see the expressions on the light dogs. Plus there's that psychic client of my husband's who saw us with a black dog...I gotta admit that's in the back of my mind. Hopefully it will all work out like it's meant to. No doubt either one would make me happy. She says the black dog is more outgoing, the first to explore. The cream pup is friendly and playful but a little more reserved.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 01:09 PM
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Petlaluna~~some futher reassurance. My husband did not want a dog at all!! I really had to twist his arm. But it was love at first sight and he is totally besotted.

I would choose your puppy based on personality first, color second. I am partial to whites, myself~~ I love seeing their expressions. I have always picked calmer animals and it has paid off. My dog is very stable, patient, loyal, not a barker , not anxious at the groomer or home alone for hours. Sometimes the more appealing playful pups turn out to be a handful! Choose thoughtfully. . . also, in Havanese males are supposedly easier and more loving, and that has been my experience.



HAV A GREAT DAY ! ~~AMY & BISCUIT~~
and HEATH-Y, TOO !
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