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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Wasn't sure whether to post this here

or on the puppy thread. I didn't want to hijack anyone else's thread but reading about the Gemstone litter and the different head shapes and structure brought me back to a question I had when I got Bailey. All of you who were around at the time know how I fell in love with him the moment I saw his photo. Those first shots didn't show the fact that the shape of his head was very different than Milo's, and most other puppies I'd seen. As a matter of fact, it was that factor that made the breeder decide not to keep him at first.

When he arrived, he was already my own in my heart and soul, but he looked different and I wondered in the early days what he would ultimately look like. Obviously, biased or otherwise, I now think Bailey is drop dead gorgeous but I was wondering if his head shape in the early days was unusual or common.
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<b>Just Milo and me, and . . . </b>Bailey makes three . . . until Ruby said, "hey, what about me?"
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 09:29 AM
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Geri- others on this forum can comment more expertly, but Bailey is gorgeous!!

Maybe his coloring when he was a pup gave his head a weird look. He had those "owl eyes" like my Rico had. He looks A-OK to me!


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 09:38 AM
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I hope some breeders do comment,because even though I notice details(I thought) such as tails etc. I'm not seeing or noticing a difference in the head shapes.

I do see a difference in muzzles on certain dogs though. Some of the havs,particularly the small ones,seem to have a more pointy/mouse-y looking muzzle. Anyone else notice that?

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 10:01 AM
 
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To me it looks like his colors make his head look different...but, regardless, he is GORGEOUS!
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 10:16 AM
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Geri, whatever his head shape is it sure works for me! Beautiful!
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Please understand, this was not a complaint in any way. I adore Bailey and think he's gorgeous too. It's just that his head shape was different that any I'd personally seen and was the reason (initially) that the breeder decided not to keep him. Most of the puppies have rounder shaped heads. His was wide, shorter and with a narrower appearing muzzle. See if these photos show it better.
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<b>Just Milo and me, and . . . </b>Bailey makes three . . . until Ruby said, "hey, what about me?"
Geri, Milo, Bailey and HRH Princess Ruby Tuesday

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 10:29 AM
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It would be nice to learn a bit about conformation, wouldn't it? I really don't understand the debate about "Arizona" vs the other lines, either.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 11:27 AM
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Here is the standard to compare it to.... I am still learning a lot about confirmation and know head wouldn't be a disqualification. It might just be something a breeder wouldn't keep in his/her breeding program.

Head
The expression is soft and intelligent, mischievous rather than cute. The eyes are dark brown, large, almond-shaped, and set rather widely apart. Dark eyes are preferred irrespective of coat color, although the chocolate colored dog may have somewhat lighter eyes. The pigment on the eyerims is complete, solid black for all colors except for the chocolate dog which has complete solid, dark chocolate pigment. No other dilution of pigment is acceptable. Ears are of medium length; the leather, when extended, reaches halfway to the nose. They are set high on the skull, slightly above the endpoint of the zygomatic arch, and are broad at the base, showing a distinct fold. When the dog is alert, the ears lift at the base, producing an unbroken shallow arc from the outer edge of each ear across the backskull. The backskull is broad and slightly rounded. The stop is moderate. Length of muzzle is slightly less than length of back skull measured from stop to point of occiput and the planes are level. The nose is broad and squarish, fitting a full and rectangular muzzle, with no indication of snipiness. The pigment on the nose and lips is complete, solid black for all colors except for the chocolate dog which has complete solid, dark chocolate brown pigment. No other dilution of pigment is acceptable. A scissors bite is ideal. Full complement of incisors preferred. Disqualifications: Complete absence of black (or chocolate in the chocolate dog) pigmentation on the eyerims, nose or lips.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 01:23 PM
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I don't think there's anything wrong with Bailey's head at all, but I don't think many breeders would keep him for breeding, like Amanda said, because it does look like his head is too flat at the top/back (rather than slightly rounded).

I do think head shapes are very different as well as muzzle shapes like Julie mentioned before. Some muzzles are longer and some are flatter than others too. But that's even within a specific breeding program, I've noticed. I'm personally not as big of a fan of the shorter muzzles, but I also don't like the pointy muzzles either. Middle-of-the-road for me!


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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 01:49 PM
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I'm lost Geri, breeders love to see the magnolia shaped heads in their puppies. I can't tell from the pictures his muzzle length in comparison to his backskull and pictures can be so deceiving that I can't make a guess about length or width. Iím so far behind in the forum that Iím not familiar with the litter youíre talking about but the only puppies I would ever compare to would be my own anyway.

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