How to cut up meat for treats - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-19-2015, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
harmony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 78
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
How to cut up meat for treats

Our experience with Kepler has really made it clear to us how important it is to raise well-behaved dogs, so we have decided to try to get Luna her CGC. She needs to work on loose leash walking, mostly, which she's awful at. Pretty much everything else on the CGC test she would be great at.

However, Luna is mildly overweight. We're hoping to have her lose about a pound this year to get back to her ideal weight range, so we have to think carefully about her training treats. We can reduce her meals and use kibble, but kibble is only so rewarding. I would like to use real meat, but every time I've tried to use real meat I've had a problem with cutting the meat up for treats. It's always a great big mess to feed, crumbling into teeny tiny crumbs that stick to my fingers and fall on the floor. Is that just how it is with meat, or am I doing it wrong?

Kepler, we miss you . . . Luna, who is not a Havanese
harmony is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-19-2015, 07:42 PM
Senior Member
 
civano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 251
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 2 Times in 2 Posts
Karen uses real meat so she might have an answer for you. I know she has talked about it in other threads. I'll be interested in hearing the answer.

Most treats I give Javi seem to give him runny stools. I wonder if just meat would be better than other premade treats. I might try it next.

Kim & Javi

civano is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-19-2015, 10:45 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,583
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
I think the biggest "trick" to real meat is to over-cook it a bit by people-terms. Chicken thighs crumble less than breast, most beef works well if slices thick then cubed small... Even stew beef, roasted, works fine. One of my go-to meats is pork loin, because you can get it on sale fairly regularly for cheap. Roast it for dinner then cube the rest and freeze it in little snack size plastic bag.

Another choice is low sodium deli turkey or roast beef. Ask for the deli to cut it into the thickest slices possible, then cube it from there.

Even among dog foods there are good choices. Nature's variety makes freeze dried raw bites which are nutritious, tasty and convenient. Or if you want a moist training treat, buy their frozen raw bites and microwave them to firm them up. Freshpet Vital is another decent rolled food that can be cubed for training treats.

As long as I know I am using good quality , nutritious food for training treats, I cut down Kodi's meals to keep his weight where I want it, not what I use for training.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-20-2015, 04:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Sassy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Goldsboro, NC
Posts: 290
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 3 Times in 3 Posts
Karen how often do you reward Kodi? Is it after every command or every other time? When do you phase out the treats? I know they say gradually but what is gradually?

Nadine
Sassy's Mom is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-20-2015, 05:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Deacon Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 393
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 5 Times in 4 Posts
Consider slicing and dicing a Natural Balance roll

One of the things I learned is that the training treat can be very, very small - it's a reward and not a snack. Rory's breeder suggested making teeny morsels (like the size of a child aspirin) from Natural Balance rolls.


They're readily available at Petco, Petsmart, etc. and they can be easily sliced and chopped to tiny treat size. I like them because they're not greasy and of course my Hav loves them.

I've figured out that in addition to being a favorite training treat, they're also one of the cheapest. One of those rolls lasts almost forever in the fridge when sealed up.
Deacon Blues is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 10:36 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,583
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassy's Mom View Post
Karen how often do you reward Kodi? Is it after every command or every other time? When do you phase out the treats? I know they say gradually but what is gradually?

Nadine
It TOTALLY depends on what we are doing. He doesn't get rewards for following simple "manners" commands EVER at this point in his life, but remember, he's almost 6, and very well trained. He gets rewarded for NEW behaviors every time we work on them, and then we often work on things in pieces, so he might get rewarded just for a single piece of an exercise.

Every other time would be a VERY bad idea… it wouldn't take long for the dog to catch on to that schedule, and decide there was no reason to do it the "other" time, because he wasn't going to get paid anyway! When an exercise is about 80% reliable, it's time to go to a variable rate of reinforcement. Which means just that. You might reward 3 times in a row the skip one, then reward twice then skip three… This is MUCH harder than it seems. Humans like order and regularity. You really have to THINK about randomizing reinforcement.

Even when the dog knows the exercises VERY well, it can also depend on the day. After I was away for a week recently, I took Kodi to class, and I could tell he didn't have much enthusiasm. So I really increased the rate of reinforcement… to the point that I was rewarding every set up and every few steps of heeling. As his head got more in the game, and he was clearly having more fun, I was able to go back to a closer to regular rate of reinforcement.

From what I see, people are too worried about getting rid of reinforcers too soon… or they do what my instructor calls "chumming the waters". That is feeding aimlessly, with no thought to whether the reward was earned or not. Also remember that rewards don't ALWAYS have to mean food. The more play rewards you can build in (throw a ball, tug a toy, jump up and touch your hand…) or "touch" rewards (Kodi likes a little scratch on his chest) the better. It shouldn't ALL be about food!


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 10:41 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,583
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
One of the things I learned is that the training treat can be very, very small - it's a reward and not a snack. Rory's breeder suggested making teeny morsels (like the size of a child aspirin) from Natural Balance rolls.


They're readily available at Petco, Petsmart, etc. and they can be easily sliced and chopped to tiny treat size. I like them because they're not greasy and of course my Hav loves them.

I've figured out that in addition to being a favorite training treat, they're also one of the cheapest. One of those rolls lasts almost forever in the fridge when sealed up.
Yup. We use those too. Even better, we have someone local who makes lamb, chicken and beef rolls that don't have the preservatives and sugar that's in the Natural Balance and Red Barn rolled food. We can only pick them up at trials, though. So look around, especially if you can get to a big show or trial where there are a bunch of vendors. You can find lost of good things to use as training treats.

And you are absolutely right… You want to be able to use LOTS of treats while training, which means that they should be VERY small for our small breed dogs!


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 05:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Sassy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Goldsboro, NC
Posts: 290
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 3 Times in 3 Posts
Karen great info. I was really worried about giving too many food treats. I was told to use only praise but I was having a lot of difficulty just getting her to answer to her name. She had been doing a lot better until about 3 weeks ago and then it was like she decided to ignore me half the time. I think I also need to change out the treats to find one she likes even better.

Gary, will pick up one of those rolls tomorrow. Hopefully she'll love it.

Nadine
Sassy's Mom is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 07:29 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,583
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 298 Times in 296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassy's Mom View Post
Karen great info. I was really worried about giving too many food treats. I was told to use only praise but I was having a lot of difficulty just getting her to answer to her name. She had been doing a lot better until about 3 weeks ago and then it was like she decided to ignore me half the time. I think I also need to change out the treats to find one she likes even better.

Gary, will pick up one of those rolls tomorrow. Hopefully she'll love it.

Nadine
If you are serious about getting anything done with training, you MUST either use punishment severe enough to get the response you want from the dog OR rewards that are important enough to the dog to get the response you want. Sine I do not believe in punishment-based training, I use rewards. Praise is a VERY low-level reward for most dogs. Play is high for some and food is highest for many. Even the value of different food items varies. For most, Cheerios or kibble would be examples of low value food rewards, while fresh meat or dried lamb lung would be examples of high value food treats. But every dog will vary in regards to their favorites, and favorites often shift over time, so it's best to plan on variety among food rewards.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome