Mi first day in formal obedience training, I have questions - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Mi first day in formal obedience training, I have questions

This morning was mi first day in formal obedience training. This is a basic home obedience training and is not meant for competition training. There 12 dogs in mi class of various breeds, sizes, and ages.

Popi said I did real good, but he said that we need to work on mi concentration on him and not on the other doggies in mi class when working together. The trainer said that I was the most advanced in mi class, especially responding to a clicker (which is not part of this class). The trainer said that she was going to give mi and Popi a little more latitude how we do tings since she knows that I will graduate into an AKC obedience competition class after this class and they do tings a bit different.

Here are mi questions for those of you who are already into obedience competitions (tia Karen?).

- where can I find the rules for AKC novice obedience competition somewhere on-line?
- what is the collar/leash that is permitted in competitions for the novice class? What is the specific one Popi should purchase?
- how many times is allowed for a verbal or hand command during a novice competition?

O.K., time for 10 or 15 minutes of practice before dinner ,,,,,,,I love going to school!

besos, Ricky Ricardo

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 09:54 PM
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Oh man!!! I can't believe this!!! i just wrote you a LONG response, and it crashed on me!!!

I'm going to take your question over into Word, re-write, and then post it!


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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 10:31 PM
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OK, trying again:


Here are mi questions for those of you who are already into obedience competitions (tia Karen?).

where can I find the rules for AKC novice obedience competition somewhere on-line?

http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/am...9_1114_WEB.pdf

what is the collar/leash that is permitted in competitions for the novice class? What is the specific one Popi should purchase?

There is quite a bit of latitude on leashes in AKC. Basically, you can't use a prong or pinch collar or an e-collar. Almost anything else is OK. There must be no tags on the collar, however. I prefer a 5' thin, soft, leather lead for obedience with a Havanese, because it is long enough to give you room for the "j" loop you need for a loose lead, but at the same time it's not so long that the dog is tripping over it. People with larger dogs often use a shorter lead.

- how many times is allowed for a verbal or hand command during a novice competition?

This varies depending on the exercise, but there is usually not more than ONE either voice or hand signal for any part of an exercise in a FEW instances (though not at the novice level) you must give a simultaneous hand and voice signal, and of course, at the Utility level, there is an exercise where ONLY hand signals can be used. (Again, the rule book spells this all out) extra cues/commands/signals cost you 3 points each. In some parts of some exercises, a second command is an NQ. (Such as when you call the dog on the recall exercise)

Remember that Novice isn't the lowest level class. beginner Novice is a much easier entry point than Novice, as there is no off leash heeling nor are there any group stays. pre-Novice is the same as Novice, except there are no group stays in that either.

And if you want to be able to talk to you dog more, rally allows as much chatter as you want. AKC rally even allows multiple commands without penalty.


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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 08:25 AM
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Great thread! I did obedience with my first corgi and he LOVED it! All my other dogs didn't seem too enthusiastic. But I'm counting on doing obedience with Baci, with the hope of moving on to agility. I hear Havanese have the right personality for agility and obedience classes are a must. How far does one need to progress in obedience before starting agility, usually?
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Napria View Post
Great thread! I did obedience with my first corgi and he LOVED it! All my other dogs didn't seem too enthusiastic. But I'm counting on doing obedience with Baci, with the hope of moving on to agility. I hear Havanese have the right personality for agility and obedience classes are a must. How far does one need to progress in obedience before starting agility, usually?
Certainly ALL dogs need a level of basic "pet" obedience. Most of that can be accomplished during the first year, while they are still too young, physically, to be doing agility anyway.

Beyond that, the two really split. You can CERTAINLY do both, but you don't need to have more than normal, good, "pet" type obedience to do agility. You need a good start line (and table) stay, and the dog must have a good recall and be willing to work with you without running off. Beyond that, it gets REALLY different. In obedience, the dog must work, with precision, in a tight heel position on the left side. In agility, they must be willing to regularly work MUCH farther away from you, and on either side, at speed. But there is no need for the same level of precision.

You can certainly do both with many dogs, as long as they have a good working attitude and you are willing to do the (considerable) work necessary to do both sports. There are lots of dogs with the lower titles in both. But most dogs are better at one or the other, partially because of basic aptitude, partialy because few people (and dogs!) have the time it takes to train and compete at a high level in both sports!


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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krandall View Post
Oh man!!! I can't believe this!!! i just wrote you a LONG response, and it crashed on me!!!
Popi says he wishes he had a peso for every time that has happened to him! And gracias for sticking with it and the MUY helpful information.

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Originally Posted by krandall View Post
There is quite a bit of latitude on leashes in AKC. ......... Almost anything else is OK.
Can you use a harness? I do have a nylon collar that passes through a ring, but I am afraid this might hurt my throat if Popi accidentally gets two vigorous. Anyway to get a picture of the competition collar you use? I'll share mi bully stick with you.

Quote:
Remember that Novice isn't the lowest level class. beginner Novice is a much easier entry point than Novice, as there is no off leash heeling nor are there any group stays. pre-Novice is the same as Novice, except there are no group stays in that either.
Xellent information, I dint know that. I'm gonna start at "bigginer novice" level and work mi way up.

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Originally Posted by Napria View Post
How far does one need to progress in obedience before starting agility, usually?
Popi contacted an Agility training facility near us. They told Popi that all doggies must know basic commands - heal, sit, stay, stand, don't poop on course (jus joking!) - before they will be accepted into their training program, and they will be tested first. They don't care where the basic obedience was learned, you just have to know it. You may find that other facilities have different requirements.

It appears two mi that it is an easier progression to go from obedience comp to rally comp before going into agility. Take a look at some of mi amigo Kodi obedience and rally videos on YouTube, MUY instructional!

buena suerte (good luck) to all mi amigos in competition, Ricky Ricardo

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post

Can you use a harness? I do have a nylon collar that passes through a ring, but I am afraid this might hurt my throat if Popi accidentally gets two vigorous. Anyway to get a picture of the competition collar you use? I'll share mi bully stick with you.
No, you cannot EVER use a harness in AKC competition. BUT, since the dog should ALWAYS be working on a loose lead, there is very little danger of hurting their neck. Pixel is already heeling quite well, and has not done ANY heel work with a lead on. The goal should be to have the dog in the same position that they will be in for all other heeling in obedience with the leash just as a "safety net". Even in Novice level, only the initial heeling pattern and figure 8 are done on lead. Then you need to do the heeling pattern off lead. If you can't maintain a loose lead on leash, you aren't going to be able to keep your dog with you on the heel free. And above Novice level, the leash comes off as soon as the dog goes through the in gate. ALL exercises are done off leash.

I would not use a "choke" type collar on a Havanese, even if it is nylon rather than chain. Actually, chain releases its tension faster, so is kinder than a nylon choke. (But I wouldn't use that type of collar on any dog ) i use plain buckle collars. I don't care if they are clip type buckles or regular buckles, and i have a "selection" of collars and leads depending on what Kodi and I decide to wear that day. I'll post a photo of a couple of Kodi's collars. The red one is just a cheap rolled leather collar from Petco. The gold and black braided leather is from this company:

http://www.stibbar.com/snap-or-slip-leashes.php

This company is very popular with obedience people, and for good reason. The leather is VERY soft and flexible, comfortable in the hand, and can be made in a huge number of colors and combinations. We have red and black, silver and black and gold and black. But they are custom work, so not cheap. Fair warning... SOME people's black and white Havanese (we won't name names) find that they are irresistable to chew, if left lying around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post
Popi contacted an Agility training facility near us. They told Popi that all doggies must know basic commands - heal, sit, stay, stand, don't poop on course (jus joking!) - before they will be accepted into their training program, and they will be tested first. They don't care where the basic obedience was learned, you just have to know it. You may find that other facilities have different requirements.
Sounds like a "serious" agility training place, and that's good. I get frustrated when people are paying good money to learn agility, and I see posts of them going around "courses" with the dog on a leash. If the dog is on leash, it is NOT the "sport" of agility. It might be fun for both parties, and if thats what they enjoy, fine. But for people to think they can go from there to competing... They will have to start over from scratch, learning real skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post
It appears two mi that it is an easier progression to go from obedience comp to rally comp before going into agility. Take a look at some of mi amigo Kodi obedience and rally videos on YouTube, MUY instructional!
Not really. Novice level in both agility and rally have an easier "entry point" than formal obedience. There is NO reason for a dog who is targeted toward serious agility to ever set foot in a formal obedience (competition) class, let alone to compete in either rally or obedience. There are actually rather few agility dogs who ever do formal obedience or rally. Likewise, Rally is considered a "gateway" sport to formal obedience, at least in AKC. WCRL rally, at the higher levels is MUCH harder than AKC rally, and there are certainly exercises that a dog who could only do novice level formal obedience would not be prepared for. But over all, formal obedience is much harder than rally.

Agility is all over the map. There are some forms of agility where, especially the lowest levels, are quite easy, and a dog that will follow you around, and has been exposed to all the equipment can do quite well. (Weaves are the only really "hard" obstacle in agility... It DOES take time and PRACTICE to teach a dog to consistently find his entry and to weave well) at the higher levels of agility, though, it's all about team work and handling and being able to work at a distance from the handler and discriminate between obstacles. It get's really hard at the higher levels. A different KIND of hard than the higher levels of obedience, but both are very, VERY challenging!

And... You usually are training quite a bit higher than you are competing. Kodiis cometing at Opne in obedience and training Utility (the highest level) in agility, we are in a Masters level handling class, but he doesn't even have his open titles yet. He has achieved the highest titles possible in rally.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 11:47 AM
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Here is heeling with a "j" loop in the lead, which is what you need for your loose leash heeling in either obedience or rally. You can see that the lead is only there because it s a requirement of the level, not because I used it to "guide" or "restrain" him in any way.

Oh, and this was the leash I used in the very beginning. (This was rally BTW) as I learned more, I found this leash both too long and too heavy.

ETA: This heeling is fine for rally, but is not tight enough for formal obedience.
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Last edited by krandall; 06-20-2015 at 12:18 PM.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 12:18 PM
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This is was what formal obedience heeling should look like, with and without a leash. Some of these are actually at rally trials, but they are WCRL trials, which are judged stricter, and also, because I do both rally and obedience, I hold us both to the same standard in rally that we need in the obedience ring! You can see he is in the same position, with or without the leash. The leash is really irrelevant. :
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Last edited by krandall; 06-20-2015 at 12:30 PM.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 03:52 PM
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I enjoying seeing your photos, Karen.

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