Potty and Crate Questions - Page 2 - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 08:46 PM
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I only used a crate to house train so by no means do you have to have an indoor potty option. The dog does go back in the crate if they have not gone potty and you try again in a little while. When they do potty outside you can give them supervised freedom but you must have eyes on them at all times. I also used an expen when I wanted my puppy to have a little more freedom but knew I could not watch her every minute, like when I was cooking dinner. Eventually the time in the crate becomes less and less and the area of freedom becomes more and more. Just make sure not to give too much freedom too soon as that is a mistake many new puppy owners make.
Thanks again, Molly! Could you break it down for me just a little more? If we're taking her out every one to two hours to potty, and she can stay out a little bit if she does in fact go potty, when does she go back into the crate after that supervised freedom in order to start over again?
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 09:37 PM
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Puppies may need to go potty every time they change activities. That means when they wake up, after playtime or after eating or drinking. If you have had the puppy out of the crate for awhile for playtime or mealtime I would take them outside again and then return to the crate for awhile. Then start all over again after an hour or two in the crate. If they are not having accidents you can start increasing the amount of time between potty trips outside. Any time you start having accidents you need to figure out what went wrong and readjust the schedule. Sometimes that means going back to the beginning and tightening the restrictions or decreasing the freedom area. I hope this helps a little.



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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 08:14 AM
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I'm so confused!! Still doing my reading, but trying to catch my bearings. So with a puppy, their main living area used is their expen w/ some sort of indoor potty option. You take them outside as you can for them to learn to eliminate outdoors. And if they go to the bathroom then you let them run around outside of the pen? And if they don't then they go back in the pen? Where does the crate come into play? I only had plans to use a crate!
Go back and read Kendrall's explanation on potty training. And ... Check out other threads regarding the ex-pen.

But to briefly recap: You first focus on indoor potty training. Don't worry about taking your puppy outside to do their job ... IF you want your dog to use the indoor potty tray when they are older when there is bad weather or you're not home to let them out. Take your puppy outside to play and walk on a leash. There's no reward if they eliminate outdoors. After they're indoor house broken and they are around a one year old they'll naturally wait to go outside...unless there is bad weather or you're not home. Then they'll use the indoor potty tray.

Training a dog where they to properly eliminate indoors is a housebroken dog.

You DO NOT use the crate or ex-pen as punishment for NOT eliminating outdoors. They should love their ex-pen and crate. The ex-pen has a fluffy bed, water, where they eat, toys and a potty tray. Dogs are easily house broken if you use the ex-pen in the correct way. Lots of info on ex-pens set ups on this web site. Check them out.

Last edited by Mikki; 04-19-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 08:44 AM
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My advice to this poster was advising her on outdoor potty training questions. Many of us do not use indoor potty options. Crates are an effective way to potty train a puppy and using the crate is not a punishment. It is a useful tool to teach them to potty outside because dogs do not want to potty where they sleep. It helps them learn to go longer between potty breaks and to become a potty trained dog who can have freedom in the house. My Havanese, and my Bichon before her, were successfully potty trained this way and they do not consider the crate as a place of punishment. It is their den or safe space and my adult dog goes in there many times during the day on her own to nap or chew on a toy or whatever. This is just another option that people can use and I must disagree with you because this way of using a crate is not done so as punishment.



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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 12:21 PM
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Some great advice here! Question: Is a "litter box" the same thing you'd use for a cat, with cat litter in it? I bought puppy pee pads and thought I'd use those. Which is better long-term?

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 01:17 PM
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Some great advice here! Question: Is a "litter box" the same thing you'd use for a cat, with cat litter in it? I bought puppy pee pads and thought I'd use those. Which is better long-term?
If you want some great info about litter boxes I would private message Tom King. They use litter boxes with all of their puppies they breed and would be a great person to ask. As far as pee pads go, a lot of puppies shred them so I think having the pad in a holder would help with that.



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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 01:39 PM
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Some great advice here! Question: Is a "litter box" the same thing you'd use for a cat, with cat litter in it? I bought puppy pee pads and thought I'd use those. Which is better long-term?
You can use pads, I just didn't like them. I think there's a reason you aren't supposed to use cat litter. I used the pine equine pellets recommended here on the forum because they are much cheaper. I read other places that people have used kitty litter boxes but a lot of the trays that hold the potty pads can hold pine pellets and they are lower profile than a real litter box. I have two, one that's more like a litter box with higher walls and one thats about an inch tall, Ugodog brand, and I like the flat one better because it's more inconspicuous.

Containment is really the important part I think, whether you go with crate training or the ex pen set up. Most people I know personally with very well trained dogs crate trained, so we started out crate training. Then we were confused about whether or not the crate was related to our puppy's separation anxiety, so we decided not to worry about the crate and got creative with how we implemented the confinement. The book I followed was based on crate training so I just kept following it, in my mind replacing "crate" with "bed and ex-pen." I added indoor potty later, but he had been introduced to paper training by the breeder so I was lucky and he caught on. I have assumed that most people using potty trays use the ex-pen, crate, and potty tray set up, but as I'm thinking about it I don't see why you couldn't crate train and also use a potty tray - wouldn't it just be a matter of taking the puppy to the potty tray instead of outside? I'm curious if anyone has done it that way and if that would work!
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 06:23 PM
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Some great advice here! Question: Is a "litter box" the same thing you'd use for a cat, with cat litter in it? I bought puppy pee pads and thought I'd use those. Which is better long-term?
Tom King uses a litter box like a cat uses and puts Equine Horse Pellets inside the box. His puppies start using the litter box when they're about 4 weeks old. From pictures it looks like Tom has his litter boxes on a screened in porch where his puppies and dog go to use it. His dogs also potty outside, as well as, being indoor housebroken.

Several of us on this forum have indoor house broken our dogs and use Equine Horse Pellets instead of puppy pee pads inside potty trays that have grates on top. The grates keep the paws of the puppies and adult dogs clean when they use it. If you use an open litter box the dogs pick up saw dust and equine pellets on their paws, carrying some of it out of the box onto the floor. It depends on your situation on which method you use.

I've used about everything. Artificial grass, pee pads, Equine Horse Pellets along with four different potty trays. The artificial grass smells, as well as, the pee pads. That why I and others like the Equine Horse Pellets. There is no odor. When the dog pees on the pellets they expand and turn into a clump of saw dust. You, also, don't have to change it out as often as pee pads. I've, also, used Equine Horse Shavings when I couldn't find the pellets.

I keep pee pads handy and sometime use them in a pinch. When I use pee pads, I use them inside potty trays and have never just laid them on the floor. Some people do this. I'm sure my little one would have played with it and torn it up. If you put the pee pad inside the trays, the dogs can't get to it.

There are potty trays such as Richell Trax Mesh Tray, Ugo Dog, Byliss Pets Klean Paws plus others. I have all these and they work, however, Ugo Dog and Byliss Pet's Kean paws work the best with the Horse Equine Pellets.

Here are the links two the trays on Amazon. You have to order direct from UgoDog. It is a larger tray than Byliss. Depends on the size you need. Hope this helps.






Last edited by Mikki; 04-19-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 07:41 PM
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Such great advice! I have only been a forum member one day and already I LOVE it and everyone's willingness to help us newbies.

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 11:13 PM
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Mikki, did your dog switch easily from one grated potty system to another? I bought the Richell Paw Trax tray, and although it works with the pine pellets, it's not perfect. I think the Blyss would be better because I can snap the grate over the pellets, rather than down into the tray like the Richell. Unfortunately, I didn't know about the Blyss when I bought the Richell. My puppy is starting to do well indoor potty training with the Richell, and I'm afraid if I switch to the Blyss, he'll regress.

I'm just wondering how easy (or not) it is to switch from one grated system to another.
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