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Potty and Crate Questions

6K views 32 replies 11 participants last post by  Mikki 
#1 ·
I have started taking Zumba outside to go potty. I am not sure how to do this right, and have gotten conflicting info from the 'net. If she doesn't go when I take her outside, do I just put her back in the ex-pen, or do I put her in her crate to wait out the 15- 30 minutes before I try again?

The Florida sun has been brutal. I had her outside ex-pen in the sun, where she did her business every time when I'd put her there, but could not take her to that spot between 10am - 3:00pm because of the sun. I moved the ex-pen to the area to a shady area under a tree but she would NOT go in that area whatsoever. After trying for a whole day, I moved the ex-pen back over to the sunny spot and instant success! But that puts me back to the dilemma of how do people potty train their dogs in an unbearably hot climate? All I could come up with is an umbrella to cover both Zumba and me from the sun. Is that my only resort? Or accept that it will be outside when the weather is tolerable, and inside when it is too hot, the opposite of what some people do in colder or wetter climates?

Yesterday I was gone for a couple of minutes short of 3 hours and came back to a stressed Zumba. There were still people in the house - - my husband, my mom and a caretaker, and I know the caretaker and mom hang out in the kitchen, where they see Zumba, but I don't think they go in to pet her, but Zumba can definitely still hear there are people nearby and should be able to see them if she goes into the crate part of the set-up. They're just not me. She's fine with me leaving for awhile but she is used to seeing me at least every 1/2 hour, if nothing else for a "hello" and a rub. Though these last couple of weeks, I've been working with her, so we usually end up doing 5 - 10 minutes of some kind of training and fun before I go do something else for awhile. I was wondering if she would have been happier if I had crated her instead of leaving the crate open and with access to her ex-pen area? She is now almost 14 weeks old.

Thank you so much for your insights!
 
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#2 ·
We are working on this too, so by no means an expert. Have you tried moving some equine pine pellets and the “used” saw dust from her puppy pan to the spot where you want her to go? That may help signal to her that this is where she does her business.

Also when you are home does she still have access to her indoor potty options? This was something I was unsure of, whether to take it temporarily away while we work on going outside.
 
#3 · (Edited)
If you are using the crate to potty train then you do put them back in the crate if they have not pottied outside. Then you try again in a little while. Once they potty outside they get supervised freedom in the house. Eventually, after having no potty accidents inside, the outside the crate time gets longer and longer and you have a fully potty trained dog! I found that my puppy had her potty accidents in her expen when she had them - never in the crate. Of course if you have an indoor option in your expen set up that changes things.

I also wanted to add that my dog is always taken out on a leash to potty and given a potty command. This way I can be sure she has gone, which is helpful during potty training. Also, then you would not have to worry about the hot sun or weather as you are coming right back in the house after pottying.
 
#4 ·
I have started taking Zumba outside to go potty. I am not sure how to do this right, and have gotten conflicting info from the 'net. If she doesn't go when I take her outside, do I just put her back in the ex-pen, or do I put her in her crate to wait out the 15- 30 minutes before I try again?

The Florida sun has been brutal. I had her outside ex-pen in the sun, where she did her business every time when I'd put her there, but could not take her to that spot between 10am - 3:00pm because of the sun. I moved the ex-pen to the area to a shady area under a tree but she would NOT go in that area whatsoever. After trying for a whole day, I moved the ex-pen back over to the sunny spot and instant success! But that puts me back to the dilemma of how do people potty train their dogs in an unbearably hot climate? All I could come up with is an umbrella to cover both Zumba and me from the sun. Is that my only resort? Or accept that it will be outside when the weather is tolerable, and inside when it is too hot, the opposite of what some people do in colder or wetter climates?

Yesterday I was gone for a couple of minutes short of 3 hours and came back to a stressed Zumba. There were still people in the house - - my husband, my mom and a caretaker, and I know the caretaker and mom hang out in the kitchen, where they see Zumba, but I don't think they go in to pet her, but Zumba can definitely still hear there are people nearby and should be able to see them if she goes into the crate part of the set-up. They're just not me. She's fine with me leaving for awhile but she is used to seeing me at least every 1/2 hour, if nothing else for a "hello" and a rub. Though these last couple of weeks, I've been working with her, so we usually end up doing 5 - 10 minutes of some kind of training and fun before I go do something else for awhile. I was wondering if she would have been happier if I had crated her instead of leaving the crate open and with access to her ex-pen area? She is now almost 14 weeks old.

Thank you so much for your insights!
I think people get very confused when reading internet "potty training strategies" and working with an already litter box trained puppy. For some reason, they look on the use of the litter box as "not training" and going outside as "training". Think of it this way instead. Every time your puppy pees or poops where they are supposed to (inside or out) they have been successful in developing the proper habit. Every time they pee or poop in an inappropriate place, YOU have let them begin to start the WRONG habit.

I GUARANTEE you, that if you do NO "outdoor training" at all, and simply take your puppy outdoors on a regular basis for walks and play, that by a year old, you will have to start heavily reinforcing the litter box if it is important to you to keep that as an option. (it is to me, it's not to everyone, though I can't tell you the number of people who later wish that their dogs would still use the litter box for one reason or another)

Dogs almost always prefer to potty outdoors once they understand it and are given the opportunity. Even my dogs, who are all willing to use the litter boxes in a pinch, almost always choose the outdoor option if they have a choice. The only time they don't prefer outdoors is in a driving rain or if the snow is too deep for them to get through. Even then, they will ASK to go out, I open the door, they sigh, turn away and use the litter box instead. ;)

So, if you want to offer her an outdoor opportunity periodically during the day, it sure won't hurt. But I would CERTAINLY not confine a puppy who was reliably clean in her pen and using her litter box appropriately, to a crate when she didn't potty, just to make sure she didn't use the litter box. What would be the purpose of that? Using the litter box is not a wrong choice.

In the meantime, you need to think about whether, long-term, you want to maintain litter box behavior or let it go. If you want to fade it, simply stop rewarding it, but make it available for those times that you miss the signal (or timing) to get her outside, and she needs it as a back-up for human failure. Eventually, without your encouragement and reinforcement, she WILL stop using it, and you can just decide to put it away. And in the meantime, she will have learned to go outdoors with very little effort on your part. BECAUSE... she has learned where NOT to potty. And isn't THAT really what you want to accomplish?

As far as her upset when you were gone, I think you just needs to slowly work up to separations. ...And if she is strongly bonded to you, it may not matter whether there are "other people in the house". I have found with my three that the girls have developed much stronger "one person" bonds than Kodi ever has. Kodi loves everyone. He is MOSTLY strongly bonded to Dave and me, but I really think he is equally happy with either one of us. And you can leave him anywhere, with anybody, and he happily fits in there. Not that he's not THRILLED when we return, but I am fully convinced that if Dave and I died in a plane crash tomorrow, Kodi would quickly adapt to ANY new home where someone loved him.

The girls are different. When I'm away overnight, Panda visibly pines. To the extent that Dave lets her sleep in bed with him. The "dog hater". ;) Pixel is SOOOO sad when Dave is away (outside normal work hours) She loves me too, and loves to train with me, but she is, as we say, "The Daddy Dog". :)

So, especially with the girls, but with all three of them, we are very conscious of making sure they ALL experience being left home alone, left home with one other dog (also going out with just one or the other of us). But it's a process. It doesn't happen overnight, and something you have to always be conscious of and work on. As far as "where", I think, over time, you'll have to play with that, and decide where she is most comfortable. When Dave's not home overnight, Pixel is happiest in her cozy crate with her favorite stuffed animal. When I'm not home overnight, Panda is comforted by the closeness of being in bed with Dave. (she normally sleeps in a crate too) ALL our dogs (now that they are adults and potty training isn't an issue) are gated in my office together when we aren't home. Before they were potty trained, they were in an ex-pen with either a crate or a fluffy bed, water bottle and litter pan. But I also know many people whose dogs are definitely more comfortable crated when they are out of the house. Play around with it, and figure out what works best for her.
 
#6 ·
I think people get very confused when reading internet "potty training strategies" and working with an already litter box trained puppy. For some reason, they look on the use of the litter box as "not training" and going outside as "training". Think of it this way instead. Every time your puppy pees or poops where they are supposed to (inside or out) they have been successful in developing the proper habit. Every time they pee or poop in an inappropriate place, YOU have let them begin to start the WRONG habit.

I GUARANTEE you, that if you do NO "outdoor training" at all, and simply take your puppy outdoors on a regular basis for walks and play, that by a year old, you will have to start heavily reinforcing the litter box if it is important to you to keep that as an option. (it is to me, it's not to everyone, though I can't tell you the number of people who later wish that their dogs would still use the litter box for one reason or another)

Dogs almost always prefer to potty outdoors once they understand it and are given the opportunity. Even my dogs, who are all willing to use the litter boxes in a pinch, almost always choose the outdoor option if they have a choice. The only time they don't prefer outdoors is in a driving rain or if the snow is too deep for them to get through. Even then, they will ASK to go out, I open the door, they sigh, turn away and use the litter box instead. ;)

So, if you want to offer her an outdoor opportunity periodically during the day, it sure won't hurt. But I would CERTAINLY not confine a puppy who was reliably clean in her pen and using her litter box appropriately, to a crate when she didn't potty, just to make sure she didn't use the litter box. What would be the purpose of that? Using the litter box is not a wrong choice.

In the meantime, you need to think about whether, long-term, you want to maintain litter box behavior or let it go. If you want to fade it, simply stop rewarding it, but make it available for those times that you miss the signal (or timing) to get her outside, and she needs it as a back-up for human failure. Eventually, without your encouragement and reinforcement, she WILL stop using it, and you can just decide to put it away. And in the meantime, she will have learned to go outdoors with very little effort on your part. BECAUSE... she has learned where NOT to potty. And isn't THAT really what you want to accomplish?

As far as her upset when you were gone, I think you just needs to slowly work up to separations. ...And if she is strongly bonded to you, it may not matter whether there are "other people in the house".

So, especially with the girls, but with all three of them, we are very conscious of making sure they ALL experience being left home alone, left home with one other dog (also going out with just one or the other of us). But it's a process. It doesn't happen overnight, and something you have to always be conscious of and work on. As far as "where", I think, over time, you'll have to play with that, and decide where she is most comfortable. When Dave's not home overnight, Pixel is happiest in her cozy crate with her favorite stuffed animal. When I'm not home overnight, Panda is comforted by the closeness of being in bed with Dave. (she normally sleeps in a crate too) ALL our dogs (now that they are adults and potty training isn't an issue) are gated in my office together when we aren't home. Before they were potty trained, they were in an ex-pen with either a crate or a fluffy bed, water bottle and litter pan. But I also know many people whose dogs are definitely more comfortable crated when they are out of the house. Play around with it, and figure out what works best for her.
You always have such common-sense insights! Thank you so much! I figuratively smacked myself in the head and thought - of course what I really care about is where I don't want her to go! I was stuck in that I was potty training her to go outside that I forgot going in the litter box is still acceptable.
 
#5 ·
At our house we were getting cocky about our progress, no accidents for days, then a couple of pees in one day, disappointing. Abby gets run of the house immediately after doing business, which she loves. Her accidents are always in the living room where her pen, & pad are, but she never uses the pad, except at night & hasn’t used it at all for a couple of weeks, going 8 hours at night. We have kept her in the pen with crate at night from day one, with little to no crying or whining. Mainly because the pad was there for her to use, so people could get some well deserved sleep, lol. She hasn’t been stressed to be there for 2-3 hours when we go out either, but maybe because Jesse (our mini aussie) is here, Abby’s idol. If I leave the room when she’s sleeping in the pen, she’s always alertly watching for me when I return. I always get a chuckle out of her expression when she see’s me. She is becoming much sweeter as she gains confidence & knowledge about her world.

She has to be careful not to cross the line with Jesse who is the keeper of the gate. Abby hits the ground fast if Jesse warns her. It reminds me of our foals who would be all full of themselves, until one of the older horses said ‘you aren’t doing that’, at which point the foal would do this baby mouth action, meaning don’t hurt me, I’m just a baby. Abby will show caution but will still bait Jesse with toys or treats, trying to get a reaction. She just turned 16 weeks. We have had her 7 weeks. We will all get through this, because after all, aren’t we the superior species?! ;)
 
#12 ·
Puppies may need to go potty every time they change activities. That means when they wake up, after playtime or after eating or drinking. If you have had the puppy out of the crate for awhile for playtime or mealtime I would take them outside again and then return to the crate for awhile. Then start all over again after an hour or two in the crate. If they are not having accidents you can start increasing the amount of time between potty trips outside. Any time you start having accidents you need to figure out what went wrong and readjust the schedule. Sometimes that means going back to the beginning and tightening the restrictions or decreasing the freedom area. I hope this helps a little.
 
#14 ·
My advice to this poster was advising her on outdoor potty training questions. Many of us do not use indoor potty options. Crates are an effective way to potty train a puppy and using the crate is not a punishment. It is a useful tool to teach them to potty outside because dogs do not want to potty where they sleep. It helps them learn to go longer between potty breaks and to become a potty trained dog who can have freedom in the house. My Havanese, and my Bichon before her, were successfully potty trained this way and they do not consider the crate as a place of punishment. It is their den or safe space and my adult dog goes in there many times during the day on her own to nap or chew on a toy or whatever. This is just another option that people can use and I must disagree with you because this way of using a crate is not done so as punishment.
 
#16 ·
If you want some great info about litter boxes I would private message Tom King. They use litter boxes with all of their puppies they breed and would be a great person to ask. As far as pee pads go, a lot of puppies shred them so I think having the pad in a holder would help with that.
 
#20 ·
Mikki, did your dog switch easily from one grated potty system to another? I bought the Richell Paw Trax tray, and although it works with the pine pellets, it's not perfect. I think the Blyss would be better because I can snap the grate over the pellets, rather than down into the tray like the Richell. Unfortunately, I didn't know about the Blyss when I bought the Richell. My puppy is starting to do well indoor potty training with the Richell, and I'm afraid if I switch to the Blyss, he'll regress.

I'm just wondering how easy (or not) it is to switch from one grated system to another.
 
#21 ·
I have the Richell tray in her expen and a PuppyGoHere litter tray in a room that we have fenced off for our pup. We had equine pine pellets in both. She started off using both equally and was very good about it. We only had less than 8-10 accidents since bringing her home. Now that she is older she either goes outside or the litter tray. I think she sees her Richell tray in her expen as an extension of her living space and does not want to soil it. Sometimes we catch her sleeping on the grates of the tray (which are clean!)

I have been thinking about removing the tray from the expen, but i feel like it's a nice option for her if we are out of the house and she really needs to go.

Here is a link to the PuppyGoHere

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G7RMCHO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_t7OUCbZQ15CSA
 
#23 ·
We did start out with the PuppyGoHere trays, and he was doing fabulously with them, but then being a puppy and all, he would try to eat the pellets. So we switched to the Richell system, and there was some regression, which is the reason for my hesitation to switch. It could be he regressed because I didn't know what I was doing and couldn't tell if he was sniffing to pee or because he is a dog. I'm better at reading his signs now, though. Maybe I'll just cross my fingers and make the switch!

Virginia, my puppy likes to lie down on his Richell tray, too!
 
#25 · (Edited)
Crate Training I had an ex-pen in the main part of the house so Patti was with everyone. At night she slept in our bedroom in a crate until about 6 months. For the most part she slept through the night but sometimes got up around 3 a.m. I took her to the ex-pen to "do her job" and returned her to the crate where she slept until morning.

If I did this again I would do the night crate differently. My crate was big enough I could have placed her bed on one side and a potty pad on the other half. That way she most likely would have gotten up and peed on the pad, NOT waking me up.

Patti had never eliminated in her crate and I was concerned if I put a potty pad in the crate, she might decide it was OK to potty in the crate. Sounds crazy as I write this.

Patti figured out if she barked I would come and take her out of the crate to pee. Being a little Smart @ss >:), she began waking me up every few hours with a little Awf!! I wanted to ignore her but was concerned she might eliminate in the crate if I didn't take her out to pee.

I was an exhausted puppy mom, so I decided to put her in our bed. She slept through the whole night and never went back to crate sleeping. We're all happy with this arrangement. Most of the night Patti sleeps in our closet behind clothes. As the night progresses she gets on the bed or sleeps on the floor. She gets hot, I think.

Don't exactly know the Moral to that Story ... Or, if potty pads in crates work or not.
 
#26 ·
I was an exhausted puppy mom, so I decided to put her in our bed. She slept through the whole night and never went back to crate sleeping. We're all happy with this arrangement.
We hope to get there one day!! Our old lady maltipoo Daisy has reign of the bed right now, so we want to wait about a year before we let the puppy intrude on her space. Last night was our first night with Ferdie and she cried in her crate for maybe half an hour before she settled down. Had her next to the bed w/ a blanket over the crate w/ one side flapped up so she could see us in bed. Just tried to ignore her and let her wind herself down, which she did. Woke up at 4 to go out and cried another 20 minutes before she got quiet again, just before I was going to try and take her back out!! I think at that point she just laid in the crate awake until we also got up at like 7, cause every time I popped my head up to see what she was doing, she also popped her head up.

We're crate training her now using her crate and expen in the living room. She cries and cries in the crate so we've tried taking her out to pee again and then coming back inside to the crate if she doesn't eliminate. Seems like she thinks it's playtime out back (small yard) cause she just bites the plants and hops around. Wondering if that keeps her from learning this is a time to try to potty. Either way, she just cries and cries if we have to put her back in there!! It's sad to see but are we supposed to keep going back and forth to the bathroom or at some point do we just not take her out and hope she just stops crying? Karen said she never crated except to sleep, so we're debating just putting her in the whole expen instead of the crate but she fusses almost just as much!

It's only day 2, so I know we're just getting started. Just want to make sure we're doing what's best for her!
 
#27 ·
When Ferdie goes into the yard to potty is she on a leash or does she have run of the yard? Taking her out on a leash lets you control the space she is allowed to explore and lets you take her to a specific potty area of the yard. After she potties then she can have some fun time in the yard. If you are going to stick with the crate to potty train then she does have to go back in there if she didn't potty and you try again in a little while. You are only on day two so this is early in the game and they will try every trick in the book to get you to feel sorry for them enough to take them out of the crate or pen and be free! If you decide to not use the crate to train then you will need a potty area in the expen. Otherwise, you will most likely have accidents in any space bigger than the crate with such a young puppy. Hang in there!
 
#28 ·
We haven't been using a leash but we have a pretty small back yard (only about 4x15 of dirt). It's just hard to know if she really has to go or not because she cries from the moment we stick her back in! And all this talk about not rewarding bad behavior makes me not want to take her back out of the crate when she's crying to go outside. I feel like I understand the rules, but they're hard to line up!
 
#31 ·
My 4 month old is doing better with potty training. We are training him to go outside only. He sleeps in the crate and has been from the day we got him. He got up in the night for a couple of weeks and then started sleeping through. But during the day he has to go out every 2 hours unless we crate him then he will go for 4 -5 hours no problem. My Question is i have never tried to keep him out of the crate for more than 2 hours without taking him out and he does not tell us if he is outside the crate by any signal if he has to go except once I caught him sniffing and going back and forth so knew he had to poop. how you train your dog to let you know or how do your pup's tell you outside the crate that they have to go. (He stays in the play pen for most day but also sits in my room with me while I am working on a leash.
 
#32 ·
I don't know how you train a dog to signal you to go out unless you have trained them to ring a bell. In my experience, dogs find a way to tell you on their own as they mature. If you always use the same door to exit your home for potty your dog may go sit by the door to signal you. Molly will either stand up on our legs or come up to us on our laps and get in our face if we are sitting down. Believe me, she lets you know when she needs to go potty and we did not train her to do this.
 
#33 · (Edited)
If you're using the same door to take your puppy out to potty, when he has more freedom to roam around he'll likely go to the door and paw or bark. If you hang bells on the door and each time you taken him outside, help the puppy paw the bell. He'll eventually get the idea and when older he'll paw the bell when he wants outs. I doubt at four months he's housebroken and probably a little young to ask to out.

I taught my other dogs to Bark to go out. I'd go to the door and say,"Arf, Arf"... then let them out. Patti is a year and half, she'll gently paw the door and sometimes Bark. She taught herself how to Ask.
 
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