Stop Command - Page 2 - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
 31Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-10-2020, 11:43 PM
Senior Member
 
EvaE1izabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,690
Submit Photo: 108
Photo Submissions 53 Times in 53 Posts
I like the different training suggestions. I used to keep them bookmarked since a lot of them are down the line kinds of things but after a while the list became so long I stopped bookmarking them! I need to check off a few goals and get the list a bit shorter again
krandall, Melissa Woods and Faithb like this.
EvaE1izabeth is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 06:15 AM
Desi’s Mom
 
Faithb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Venice, FL
Posts: 214
Submit Photo: 7
Photo Submissions 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
This is a great exercise, but it's not something that a 5-month-old puppy is ready for. Even if the puppy is pretty good at loose leash walking, (unlikely) it is REALLY unlikely that he has learned pace changes like fast and slow. So the puppy is unlikely to have ANY idea what to do with his handler running beside him. He'll have way too much to think about to learn a drop in motion command. (a lot of people have not taught a down from a stand, let alone in motion, at this age...) Great skills to work on, but unlikely to help in the current situation!
Yes, this is definitely a more advanced concept that is taught after mastering the basic skills. I agree that it is better to keep young puppies safe by limiting their environment, keeping them on a leash, etc. and that the down in motion would be better filed away for the future. It has been a very long time since I worked with a puppy, lol.
krandall and Melissa Woods like this.

Faithb is online now  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 06:27 AM
Desi’s Mom
 
Faithb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Venice, FL
Posts: 214
Submit Photo: 7
Photo Submissions 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaE1izabeth View Post
I thought the same thing when the trainer suggested a slip lead, that tightens when they pull. I heard so many horror stories about collars and even improper harnesses for small dogs. I almost didn’t do it! My expectation was low, and he was walking loose most of the time - his leash pulling was sporadic, usually when he saw another dog. She taught us where to place it and how to use it properly (he was almost 2!) and all pulling was “fixed” almost immediately. Later I went back to look up where to place it, and one of the most viewed YouTube videos showed the placement where I was sure the trainer told me not to get place it.

I do think there are situations where different training methods can be useful. It helped for us because it provides immediate feedback, both to correct the behavior and to reassure that there is still a protector connected to the leash. It is scary that so many people get this kind of direction from YouTube instead of hands on from someone who knows how to do it safely.
I am curious about the types of collars/harnesses you all use. Currently I have a small vest type harness that we use for very short walks and a small fabric collar that I use for outdoor potty breaks. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Faithb is online now  
 
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 09:56 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 25,381
Submit Photo: 8
Photo Submissions 355 Times in 353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa Woods View Post
No, actually I thought the circle thing was a no-no! Oliver just loved to spin around me in circles, kind of like zoomies on a leash. I knew I wasn't teaching him anything proper about walking on a leash, but it calmed him down enough to walk well, without pulling and trying to bounce off in that Havanese puppy way. He is great at walking on a leash now, to our benefit. The issue we have is he will bark at a biker, and I instinctively pull back, which makes him think I WANT him to be anxious, and then he lunges. So the trainer was trying to show me how to get him more concentrated on me than the stimulus he's reacting to. And there are treats involved, LOL. And Roxie ALSO loves the circle thing, so I was just letting her do it because she's having fun. So maybe it isn't a bad thing to do while leash training?

I need to figure out how to walk them both simultaneously when we get to that time! So those are all great points about figuring out which side. Oliver is a right side walker currently.
No, circling can be a good thing... though it depends on the dog. A FEW (very few, and they seem to be working breeds like Tervs and Mals) ramp up when circles, so you have to observe the dog, and make sure it’s going in the right direction emotionally.

Panda was not “reactive” to other dogs, necessarily, but just got over-excited seeing dogs or wild animals. That would make her try to charge at them. Whether you pull back or not, they can quickly hit the end of the leash doing that. And because she shows, harnesses aren’t a great option, as every bunch of mats removed due to a harness means coat lost. OTOH, I sure didn’t want her damaging her trachea! The thing I like about circle walking is that the pressure is much less, and it is on the side of the neck, not the throat. And I guess, coming from the horse world, “lunging” (exercising a horse, on a long “rope” (lunge line) is just a very easy concept for me.

The next step, beyond just letting them burn off steam running in circles, is to teach the dog that you are going to send them into a circle any time they start to react to something. You can slowly work your circle away from whatever is triggering them until they reach a distance where they can calm down. You have to teach them to circle when they are ramped up, but once they learn it, (and it took VERY few repetitions for Panda) they start easily into a circle when you initiate it. When they are circling, they CAN’T hurt their throat. (Though you can do this as easily with a harness as a collar)

I did not need to use treats or a clicker to teach circling to Panda. She caught on very easily. But other people have used treats and a clicker Or can use an oral marker of some kind, if you don’t want to deal with a clicker on top of everything else... my oral marker is a tongue click, again because it comes easily to me from work with horses. You can search “Fenzi circle walking” on YouTube for lots of examples of people using it, but I found this one very quickly, and from what you said, it sounds like this dog is doing the same sort of reacting lunging you describe with Oliver. So you can see how this person handled it:

https://youtu.be/yapDs2EH_t0
Melissa Woods likes this.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & CH Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 10:06 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 25,381
Submit Photo: 8
Photo Submissions 355 Times in 353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaE1izabeth View Post
I thought the same thing when the trainer suggested a slip lead, that tightens when they pull. I heard so many horror stories about collars and even improper harnesses for small dogs. I almost didn’t do it! My expectation was low, and he was walking loose most of the time - his leash pulling was sporadic, usually when he saw another dog. She taught us where to place it and how to use it properly (he was almost 2!) and all pulling was “fixed” almost immediately. Later I went back to look up where to place it, and one of the most viewed YouTube videos showed the placement where I was sure the trainer told me not to get place it.

I do think there are situations where different training methods can be useful. It helped for us because it provides immediate feedback, both to correct the behavior and to reassure that there is still a protector connected to the leash. It is scary that so many people get this kind of direction from YouTube instead of hands on from someone who knows how to do it safely.
The problem with slip leads (which is just another name for a choke collar) is that in small dogs, their trachea is SO vulnerable. And they are ALREADY more prone to collapsing tracheas than larger dogs. And it is something that, once the damage is done, there is no going back. (And there is no “safe” place to put a slip or choke on a small breed dog in terms of collapsing tracheas). HOWEVER, be aware that slips and chokes are different from martingale and “limited slip” collar. On a dog that knows how to walk correctly, a martingale tightens ony to the point where it won’t slip off over the head if the dog pulls back, even if they are quite loose under normal circumstances. It is a “fail safe”. They were originally designed for dogs with small, narrow heads, like greyhounds and other sight hounds, where the circumference of the neck is often not much different than the circumference of the head. I do know a number of people who use martingales on their Havanese that are good walkers, simply because you can slip them easily on and off over the dog’s head when they are slack. It makes it easy to put it on quicky on a furry beast when you are going out for a quick potty walk.
Faithb likes this.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & CH Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 10:15 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 25,381
Submit Photo: 8
Photo Submissions 355 Times in 353 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithb View Post
I am curious about the types of collars/harnesses you all use. Currently I have a small vest type harness that we use for very short walks and a small fabric collar that I use for outdoor potty breaks. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Those are what I used for all of mine as very small puppies. When they got older, and were actually going out for longer walks (about a year old) I switched to front attach harnesses. (My favorite is the Petsafe 3-in-1, which is VERY adjustable, but the smallest aize will not fit a Havanese PUPPY) I have tried other front-attCh harnesses, and found fit problems, either the front strap ends up interfere with the trachea, or it is so low the dog gets a front foot through it, or they interfere with shoulder movement.

And now, all of mine are fully adult, and we are dealing with different issues. With Panda, it is coat preservation which means she is usually walked on a soft, cloth collar. Pixel NEVER pulls, so it really doesn’t matter WHAT is areound her neck... it’s mostly for show. LOL! In Kodi’s case, he wore the Petsafe harness (Or other harnesses before that) for years. But he now has a lypoma that comes RIGHT where the strap that goes around the cheat on any haness I’ve seen would rub. So I can’t use a harness for that reason.

I really BELIEVE in harnesses for casual walking, especially for dogs who aren’t REALLY reliable about NEVER hitting the end of the leash. But they don’t work on two of mine right now, and all three walk very reliably without one. BUT, I’ve made good leash manners a real priority in my training, too.
Melissa Woods and Faithb like this.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & CH Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 10:43 AM
Senior Member
 
EvaE1izabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,690
Submit Photo: 108
Photo Submissions 53 Times in 53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
The problem with slip leads (which is just another name for a choke collar) is that in small dogs, their trachea is SO vulnerable. And they are ALREADY more prone to collapsing tracheas than larger dogs. And it is something that, once the damage is done, there is no going back. (And there is no “safe” place to put a slip or choke on a small breed dog in terms of collapsing tracheas). HOWEVER, be aware that slips and chokes are different from martingale and “limited slip” collar. On a dog that knows how to walk correctly, a martingale tightens ony to the point where it won’t slip off over the head if the dog pulls back, even if they are quite loose under normal circumstances. It is a “fail safe”. They were originally designed for dogs with small, narrow heads, like greyhounds and other sight hounds, where the circumference of the neck is often not much different than the circumference of the head. I do know a number of people who use martingales on their Havanese that are good walkers, simply because you can slip them easily on and off over the dog’s head when they are slack. It makes it easy to put it on quicky on a furry beast when you are going out for a quick potty walk.
I’m not advocating that anyone use one, that’s kind of my point, really. There are still risks, but I believe the trainer was experienced and could see that ours would benefit from it, and helped us to use it in the best way possible. I did trust the trainer, and I have to admit, I’m pretty blatantly judgmental about trainers and methods. I have a whole list of “trigger words,” and I do need to work on that. A lot of the time those words come up because people care about their dogs and are trying to educate themselves, and it’s not their fault there is a lot of terrible information out there. I’ve been there myself.

It really took 1 session to resolve the pulling, because he learned almost immediately, he didn’t pull hard even once. For a couple of days afterwards he pulled slightly at the beginning of the walk but then stopped. The skill transferred to the harness, so after a while we naturally returned to the harness for walks. But it’s nice to be able to use the slip to take him out to go potty in the yard.

I also think it may have made a difference that we spent a lot of time working on loose leash walking before this, on a harness. He wasn’t a puppy.
krandall and Faithb like this.
EvaE1izabeth is online now  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 12:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Melissa Woods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 603
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 10 Times in 10 Posts
My dogs naturally love to circle (as puppies) so I just let them for fun. I stand still and let them run, just passing the leash behind me from hand to hand. A good pre-bedtime exercise too lol. Thank you for the video. I like the idea of using this as a more advanced training tool!
Faithb likes this.

Melissa Woods is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome