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Old 09-15-2017, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Socialization and vaccination

Hi All, I'd like to get feedback on how puppy owners balanced the need for their pup to be adequately socialized during that crucial first month at home, before the pup has been fully vaccinated against scary diseases. I have read through as many posts as I could find on the issue here, but I'd like feedback on my particular living situation.

I do not have many friends (I can count them on one hand) and the few that I do have do not have children or dogs themselves. I do live in a very dog-friendly high rise, however, in a neighbourhood with a TON of dog traffic. I suspect that people in this building do not have UNvaccinated dogs, just because it's a higher income place. If you were in my living situation, and based on you handled your own puppy's socialization (I.e., did you lean more towards the socialization or being very, very careful of your dog's contact with people and other dogs, sidewalks, etc.) how would you go about socializing your puppy? And one question in particular, would you let him meet other dogs in the lobby of my building?

Some other questions:
~did you carry your pup everywhere during that first month (there is a woman in my building who has been walking her King Cavalier spaniel puppy in the neighbourhood since she brought him home)
~how did you make sure your pup was exposed to children if you didn't know any families with kids?
~did you enroll you pup in puppy class and if so, at what age were you able to do that in your area? How did that go?
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:41 PM
Dave T
 
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here's my take on socialization followed by guidelines from AVSAB

Socialization is a process whereby a dog learns to adapt and interact with their environment their own species, humans

and other animals. Primary socialization is roughly a period from about three weeks of age to about twelve weeks. It is the

most formative and important time in a dog's life. Here is the foundation on which the dog's temperament and future lies.

Puppies learn they are dogs. The littermates begin to play with each other practicing survival techniques for later on in

life such as biting, barking, fighting, posturing and chasing. They learn to relate to their littermates and develop a loose

hierarchy within the litter. If puppies are separated from their litter before 7 weeks, their ability to get along with other

dogs may be affected and they may not have learned to inhibit the force of their bite. Between the ages of 7 and 12 weeks,

they learn what human beings are and to accept them as safe. This is the time when rapid learning occurs and any experience

the puppy goes through has the greatest impact on future social behaviour, good or bad.

Primary socialization has been found to be independent of associated rewards and punishments, although emotionally

arousing stimuli both positive and negative seem to accelerate the process. Between six and eight weeks a pups willingness to

approach and make contact outweighs its wariness so this represents the best time for socialization to take place. After

twelve weeks there is a tendency to grow wary of novel stimulation so this is where further socialization wanes. Dogs that

are handled and petted by humans regularly during the first eight weeks of life are generally much more amenable to being

trained and living in human households. Ideally, puppies should be placed in their permanent homes between about 8 and 10

weeks of age. In some places it is against the law to take puppies away from their mothers before the age of 8 weeks. Before

this age, puppies are still learning tremendous amounts of socialization skills from their mother. Puppies are innately more

fearful of new things during the period from 10 to 12 weeks, which makes it harder for them to adapt to a new home.

In a letter to vets Dr,R. K. Anderson says Common questions I receive from puppy owners, dog trainers and veterinarians

concern: 1) what is the most favourable age or period of time when puppies learn best? 2) what are the health implications of

my advice that veterinarians and trainers should offer socialization programs for puppies starting at 8 to 9 weeks of age.
Puppies begin learning at birth and their brains appear to be particularly responsive to learning and retaining experiences

that are encountered during the first 13 to 16 weeks after birth [Dr. Anderson is saying that the prime time for puppy

socialization stops somewhere between 13 and 16 weeks, although more socialization occurs after that time]. This means that

breeders, new puppy owners, veterinarians, trainers and behaviourists have a responsibility to assist in providing these

learning/socialization experiences with other puppies/dogs, with children/adults and with various environmental situations

during this optimal period from birth to 16 weeks.
Many veterinarians are making this early socialization and learning program part of a total wellness plan for breeders and

new owners of puppies during the first 16 weeks of a puppy’s life -- the first 7-8 weeks with the breeder and the next 8

weeks with the new owners. This socialization program should enrol puppies from 8 to 12 weeks of age as a key part of any

preventive medicine program to improve the bond between pets and their people and keep dogs as valued members of the family

for 12 to 18 years.


To take full advantage of this early special learning period, many veterinarians recommend that new owners take their

puppies to puppy socialization classes, beginning at 8 to 9 weeks of age. At this age they should have (and can be required

to have) received a minimum of their first series of vaccines for protection against infectious diseases. This provides the

basis for increasing immunity by further repeated exposure to these antigens either through natural exposure in small doses

or artificial exposure with vaccines during the next 8 to 12 weeks. In addition the owner and people offering puppy

socialization should take precautions to have the environment and the participating puppies as free of natural exposure as

possible by good hygiene and caring by careful instructors and owners. Experience and epidemiologic data support the relative

safety and lack of transmission of disease in these puppy socialization classes over the past 10 years in many parts of the

United States. In fact; the risk of a dog dying because of infection with distemper or parvo disease is far less than the

much higher risk of a dog dying (euthanasia) because of a behaviour problem. Many veterinarians are now offering new puppy

owners puppy socialization classes in their hospitals or nearby training facilities in conjunction with trainers and

behaviourists because they want socialization and training to be very important parts of a wellness plan for every puppy. We

need to recognize that this special sensitive period for learning is the best opportunity we have to influence behavior for

dogs and the most important and longest lasting part of a total wellness plan. Are there risks? Yes. But 10 years of good

experience and data, with few exceptions, offers veterinarians the opportunity to generally recommend early socialization and

training classes, beginning when puppies are 8 to 9 weeks of age. However, we always follow a veterinarian’s professional

judgment, in individual cases or situations, where special circumstances warrant further immunization for a special puppy

before starting such classes. During any period of delay for puppy classes, owners should begin a program of socialization

with children and adults, outside their family, to take advantage of this special period in a puppy’s life.

When it comes to infectious diseases, Dr. Ian Dunbar says" the risks associated with attending puppy classes are minimal

to nonexistent and the benefits are positively huge: Puppies learn 1) bite inhibition through puppy play and 2) proper

interaction with people during off-leash play and while being handled by strangers. And owners learn to train their puppies

in a controlled setting in which training is integrated with play. In this setting, a puppy's reward for training is play

with other dogs. Dr,Jennifer Messer says puppy class not only offers an opportunity for critical socialization, but is also a

great forum for owners to help prevent other types of behaviour problems such as house soiling and hyperactivity (the two most

commonly reported behaviour problems of relinquished dogs) and to develop more realistic expectations of their dog—both of

which play key roles in reducing the chance of relinquishment. Dr. Griffin says I generally don't like dog parks for young

puppies. Behavioural risks—especially injuries from rough play, dog fights, or other sensitizing stimuli that can result in

generalized fear responses or aggression— associated with dog parks are present as much if not more than health risks for

young pups. I prefer that puppies socialize in class with puppies of the same age group and with familiar, gentle, dog-

friendly dogs that belong to friends and neighbours. Depending on a dog's temperament and size, 4 to 5 months of age (after

completion of puppyhood vaccines) might be a more appropriate age to start attending dog parks—and with close supervision ,

Good socialization introduces a puppy or dog to something new, maybe even challenges them a little, and gives them a

good experience with it. A pup must not be overwhelmed. Does the pup have an escape route and it should not be using it on a

regular basis or it will be too stressed to continue socializing. A dog who has an over-the-top reaction — to dogs, people,

whatever, is a dog too aroused to think clearly, process information, and retain that knowledge for later. In short, that

dog’s not going to learn. If your dog needs socialization, please help him get it! in the doses he requires. You will see him

make much faster progress with a series of baby steps than be throwing him into the deep end of the pool. If you don’t seem

to be making progress, consider professional help. It’s safe to say that you’ll make better progress with a good training

protocol than by just hoping things get better, and you certainly won’t be accidentally making things worse. Mistakes in

socialization, even if intentions are good, can backfire and may even produce an overly shy or overly aggressive dog. First

thing is that puppy should not be introduced to any social experience while restrained in a sling, stroller cart or anything

else. They must always have the opportunity to interact, signal and escape should they want to. That's why leash reactivity

exists so widely - because the dog's normal greeting is frustrated. When outside of puppy classes I would not introduce to an

entire group. Start with the most social. One dog at a time, puppy behind a baby gate and a free path to exit for both dogs.

Allow interaction for short periods, maybe 20 seconds and then have one person call each dog away, reward with yummies and

allow them to continue if they wish. Also be careful introducing more than one dog through baby gate. Do so for very short

interactions (10 seconds) and rotate the pairs as the dynamics change depending on the combination.

Socialization is much more than just exposing your dog to your family and dogs and maybe a few kids in your

neighbourhood, this is a good start but not nearly enough for most dogs/puppies. Socialization is taking the dog/ puppy

everywhere you go exposing the dog/puppy to hundreds of people young and old alike and all kinds of dogs. You want your

dog/puppy to meet many unfamiliar adults, young old in wheel chairs using crutches real life events school yards with lots of

yelling and screaming kids, and dogs of all different sizes and colors. This socialization will need to continue throughout

most of the dog’s life. An under-socialized dog is more likely to bite and or become stressed in unfamiliar environments and

situations. Mere exposure to things is not socialization. It’s true that dogs, especially puppies under 3 months of age,

need exposure to new environments, people, and animals. But socialization is not just introducing dogs to novel things. In

order for socialization to be effective, your dog needs positive associations with the novel things he encounters. If you

have a puppy under 3 months of age showing excessive fear of new situations (backing away, hiding, yelping, clawing at you),

you have a behavioural emergency on your hands. Get help now by contacting a good trainer in your area.
If you have an adult dog who is seems afraid of other dogs or people, or you can’t take him for walks because he’s barking

non-stop, you will benefit from working one on one with a dog trainer or animal behaviourist who can help you create a

behaviour modification program for your dog. In these situations socialization by itself may not be enough.

When talking about puppy classes Dr. Ian Dunbar says" puppy classes are truly wonderful but they offer too little too

late. Puppy classes are not a place to socialize barely socialized puppies. Instead puppy classes provide a safe forum for

socialized puppies to continue socialization under the watchful eye of a trainer on the look out for warning signs of

incipient temperament problems, especially fearfulness and aggression towards people, so that they may take immediately

remedial action. Many breeders, veterinarians and owners simply don’t see the point of early socialization and handling

because the puppies are easy to handle and already appear to be confident and friendly. In fact, many young pups appear to be

super-mega-confident and overly-friendly and so, why socialize sociable puppies? Consequently, people are predictably shocked

when at about five-and-a-half to eight months of age, their friendly and socialized puppy becomes shy, aloof, wary,

standoffish, protective, fearful, reactive and maybe aggressive towards people. Of course puppies are confident and friendly

and easy to handle. They’re puppies! All young pups should be universally outgoing towards people. Fear and aggression do not

develop until later in life. Moreover, developing anxieties and fears of the unfamiliar or scary later in life is a normal

and adaptive development process. Adolescent and adult dogs will generally accept species and individuals that they played

with as puppies yet they will likely shy away from species and individuals that they did not have adequate opportunity to

interact with as puppies. To prevent fear and aggression, the unfamiliar and scary of adolescence must become the familiar

and commonplace of puppyhood.The socialization process is deceptive because all puppies appear to be Mr. or Ms. Sociable at

two, three and four months of age and so breeders, veterinarians and owners are unaware that anything is amiss. People are

duped by their puppy’s confident and friendly demeanour, not realizing that the effects of insufficient socialization will not

become apparent until later in life. But by then of course, it is pretty much too late for quick, easy and effective

rehabilitation".


AVSAB https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads..._-_10-3-14.pdf
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Dave and Molly
Ian Dunbar was awarded the Outstanding Achievement Award from I.P.D.T.A. Here's a picture of me accepting the award on his behalf.
Member of IAABC ,International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants , Member of Pet Professional Guild
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
jay_39
 
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Originally Posted by davetgabby View Post
here's my take on socialization followed by guidelines from AVSAB
Thanks! Lots of good information in there.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:59 PM
LoriJack of Hastings, MN
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetgabby View Post
here's my take on socialization followed by guidelines from AVSAB

Socialization is a process whereby a dog learns to adapt and interact with their environment their own species, humans

and other animals. Primary socialization is roughly a period from about three weeks of age to about twelve weeks. It is the

most formative and important time in a dog's life. Here is the foundation on which the dog's temperament and future lies.

Puppies learn they are dogs. The littermates begin to play with each other practicing survival techniques for later on in

life such as biting, barking, fighting, posturing and chasing. They learn to relate to their littermates and develop a loose

hierarchy within the litter. If puppies are separated from their litter before 7 weeks, their ability to get along with other

dogs may be affected and they may not have learned to inhibit the force of their bite. Between the ages of 7 and 12 weeks,

they learn what human beings are and to accept them as safe. This is the time when rapid learning occurs and any experience

the puppy goes through has the greatest impact on future social behaviour, good or bad.

Primary socialization has been found to be independent of associated rewards and punishments, although emotionally

arousing stimuli both positive and negative seem to accelerate the process. Between six and eight weeks a pups willingness to

approach and make contact outweighs its wariness so this represents the best time for socialization to take place. After

twelve weeks there is a tendency to grow wary of novel stimulation so this is where further socialization wanes. Dogs that

are handled and petted by humans regularly during the first eight weeks of life are generally much more amenable to being

trained and living in human households. Ideally, puppies should be placed in their permanent homes between about 8 and 10

weeks of age. In some places it is against the law to take puppies away from their mothers before the age of 8 weeks. Before

this age, puppies are still learning tremendous amounts of socialization skills from their mother. Puppies are innately more

fearful of new things during the period from 10 to 12 weeks, which makes it harder for them to adapt to a new home.

In a letter to vets Dr,R. K. Anderson says Common questions I receive from puppy owners, dog trainers and veterinarians

concern: 1) what is the most favourable age or period of time when puppies learn best? 2) what are the health implications of

my advice that veterinarians and trainers should offer socialization programs for puppies starting at 8 to 9 weeks of age.
Puppies begin learning at birth and their brains appear to be particularly responsive to learning and retaining experiences

that are encountered during the first 13 to 16 weeks after birth [Dr. Anderson is saying that the prime time for puppy

socialization stops somewhere between 13 and 16 weeks, although more socialization occurs after that time]. This means that

breeders, new puppy owners, veterinarians, trainers and behaviourists have a responsibility to assist in providing these

learning/socialization experiences with other puppies/dogs, with children/adults and with various environmental situations

during this optimal period from birth to 16 weeks.
Many veterinarians are making this early socialization and learning program part of a total wellness plan for breeders and

new owners of puppies during the first 16 weeks of a puppy’s life -- the first 7-8 weeks with the breeder and the next 8

weeks with the new owners. This socialization program should enrol puppies from 8 to 12 weeks of age as a key part of any

preventive medicine program to improve the bond between pets and their people and keep dogs as valued members of the family

for 12 to 18 years.


To take full advantage of this early special learning period, many veterinarians recommend that new owners take their

puppies to puppy socialization classes, beginning at 8 to 9 weeks of age. At this age they should have (and can be required

to have) received a minimum of their first series of vaccines for protection against infectious diseases. This provides the

basis for increasing immunity by further repeated exposure to these antigens either through natural exposure in small doses

or artificial exposure with vaccines during the next 8 to 12 weeks. In addition the owner and people offering puppy

socialization should take precautions to have the environment and the participating puppies as free of natural exposure as

possible by good hygiene and caring by careful instructors and owners. Experience and epidemiologic data support the relative

safety and lack of transmission of disease in these puppy socialization classes over the past 10 years in many parts of the

United States. In fact; the risk of a dog dying because of infection with distemper or parvo disease is far less than the

much higher risk of a dog dying (euthanasia) because of a behaviour problem. Many veterinarians are now offering new puppy

owners puppy socialization classes in their hospitals or nearby training facilities in conjunction with trainers and

behaviourists because they want socialization and training to be very important parts of a wellness plan for every puppy. We

need to recognize that this special sensitive period for learning is the best opportunity we have to influence behavior for

dogs and the most important and longest lasting part of a total wellness plan. Are there risks? Yes. But 10 years of good

experience and data, with few exceptions, offers veterinarians the opportunity to generally recommend early socialization and

training classes, beginning when puppies are 8 to 9 weeks of age. However, we always follow a veterinarian’s professional

judgment, in individual cases or situations, where special circumstances warrant further immunization for a special puppy

before starting such classes. During any period of delay for puppy classes, owners should begin a program of socialization

with children and adults, outside their family, to take advantage of this special period in a puppy’s life.

When it comes to infectious diseases, Dr. Ian Dunbar says" the risks associated with attending puppy classes are minimal

to nonexistent and the benefits are positively huge: Puppies learn 1) bite inhibition through puppy play and 2) proper

interaction with people during off-leash play and while being handled by strangers. And owners learn to train their puppies

in a controlled setting in which training is integrated with play. In this setting, a puppy's reward for training is play

with other dogs. Dr,Jennifer Messer says puppy class not only offers an opportunity for critical socialization, but is also a

great forum for owners to help prevent other types of behaviour problems such as house soiling and hyperactivity (the two most

commonly reported behaviour problems of relinquished dogs) and to develop more realistic expectations of their dog—both of

which play key roles in reducing the chance of relinquishment. Dr. Griffin says I generally don't like dog parks for young

puppies. Behavioural risks—especially injuries from rough play, dog fights, or other sensitizing stimuli that can result in

generalized fear responses or aggression— associated with dog parks are present as much if not more than health risks for

young pups. I prefer that puppies socialize in class with puppies of the same age group and with familiar, gentle, dog-

friendly dogs that belong to friends and neighbours. Depending on a dog's temperament and size, 4 to 5 months of age (after

completion of puppyhood vaccines) might be a more appropriate age to start attending dog parks—and with close supervision ,

Good socialization introduces a puppy or dog to something new, maybe even challenges them a little, and gives them a

good experience with it. A pup must not be overwhelmed. Does the pup have an escape route and it should not be using it on a

regular basis or it will be too stressed to continue socializing. A dog who has an over-the-top reaction — to dogs, people,

whatever, is a dog too aroused to think clearly, process information, and retain that knowledge for later. In short, that

dog’s not going to learn. If your dog needs socialization, please help him get it! in the doses he requires. You will see him

make much faster progress with a series of baby steps than be throwing him into the deep end of the pool. If you don’t seem

to be making progress, consider professional help. It’s safe to say that you’ll make better progress with a good training

protocol than by just hoping things get better, and you certainly won’t be accidentally making things worse. Mistakes in

socialization, even if intentions are good, can backfire and may even produce an overly shy or overly aggressive dog. First

thing is that puppy should not be introduced to any social experience while restrained in a sling, stroller cart or anything

else. They must always have the opportunity to interact, signal and escape should they want to. That's why leash reactivity

exists so widely - because the dog's normal greeting is frustrated. When outside of puppy classes I would not introduce to an

entire group. Start with the most social. One dog at a time, puppy behind a baby gate and a free path to exit for both dogs.

Allow interaction for short periods, maybe 20 seconds and then have one person call each dog away, reward with yummies and

allow them to continue if they wish. Also be careful introducing more than one dog through baby gate. Do so for very short

interactions (10 seconds) and rotate the pairs as the dynamics change depending on the combination.

Socialization is much more than just exposing your dog to your family and dogs and maybe a few kids in your

neighbourhood, this is a good start but not nearly enough for most dogs/puppies. Socialization is taking the dog/ puppy

everywhere you go exposing the dog/puppy to hundreds of people young and old alike and all kinds of dogs. You want your

dog/puppy to meet many unfamiliar adults, young old in wheel chairs using crutches real life events school yards with lots of

yelling and screaming kids, and dogs of all different sizes and colors. This socialization will need to continue throughout

most of the dog’s life. An under-socialized dog is more likely to bite and or become stressed in unfamiliar environments and

situations. Mere exposure to things is not socialization. It’s true that dogs, especially puppies under 3 months of age,

need exposure to new environments, people, and animals. But socialization is not just introducing dogs to novel things. In

order for socialization to be effective, your dog needs positive associations with the novel things he encounters. If you

have a puppy under 3 months of age showing excessive fear of new situations (backing away, hiding, yelping, clawing at you),

you have a behavioural emergency on your hands. Get help now by contacting a good trainer in your area.
If you have an adult dog who is seems afraid of other dogs or people, or you can’t take him for walks because he’s barking

non-stop, you will benefit from working one on one with a dog trainer or animal behaviourist who can help you create a

behaviour modification program for your dog. In these situations socialization by itself may not be enough.

When talking about puppy classes Dr. Ian Dunbar says" puppy classes are truly wonderful but they offer too little too

late. Puppy classes are not a place to socialize barely socialized puppies. Instead puppy classes provide a safe forum for

socialized puppies to continue socialization under the watchful eye of a trainer on the look out for warning signs of

incipient temperament problems, especially fearfulness and aggression towards people, so that they may take immediately

remedial action. Many breeders, veterinarians and owners simply don’t see the point of early socialization and handling

because the puppies are easy to handle and already appear to be confident and friendly. In fact, many young pups appear to be

super-mega-confident and overly-friendly and so, why socialize sociable puppies? Consequently, people are predictably shocked

when at about five-and-a-half to eight months of age, their friendly and socialized puppy becomes shy, aloof, wary,

standoffish, protective, fearful, reactive and maybe aggressive towards people. Of course puppies are confident and friendly

and easy to handle. They’re puppies! All young pups should be universally outgoing towards people. Fear and aggression do not

develop until later in life. Moreover, developing anxieties and fears of the unfamiliar or scary later in life is a normal

and adaptive development process. Adolescent and adult dogs will generally accept species and individuals that they played

with as puppies yet they will likely shy away from species and individuals that they did not have adequate opportunity to

interact with as puppies. To prevent fear and aggression, the unfamiliar and scary of adolescence must become the familiar

and commonplace of puppyhood.The socialization process is deceptive because all puppies appear to be Mr. or Ms. Sociable at

two, three and four months of age and so breeders, veterinarians and owners are unaware that anything is amiss. People are

duped by their puppy’s confident and friendly demeanour, not realizing that the effects of insufficient socialization will not

become apparent until later in life. But by then of course, it is pretty much too late for quick, easy and effective

rehabilitation".


AVSAB https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads..._-_10-3-14.pdf


Thank you for your thorough reply. This information is extremely helpful and in perfect time for me, since I will be bringing my eight week old puppy home in another couple of weeks!


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Old 09-15-2017, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your thorough reply. This information is extremely helpful and in perfect time for me, since I will be bringing my eight week old puppy home in another couple of weeks!


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Congrats! That is SOOOOO exciting!
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:05 PM
LoriJack of Hastings, MN
 
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Originally Posted by jay_39 View Post
Hi All, I'd like to get feedback on how puppy owners balanced the need for their pup to be adequately socialized during that crucial first month at home, before the pup has been fully vaccinated against scary diseases. I have read through as many posts as I could find on the issue here, but I'd like feedback on my particular living situation.



I do not have many friends (I can count them on one hand) and the few that I do have do not have children or dogs themselves. I do live in a very dog-friendly high rise, however, in a neighbourhood with a TON of dog traffic. I suspect that people in this building do not have UNvaccinated dogs, just because it's a higher income place. If you were in my living situation, and based on you handled your own puppy's socialization (I.e., did you lean more towards the socialization or being very, very careful of your dog's contact with people and other dogs, sidewalks, etc.) how would you go about socializing your puppy? And one question in particular, would you let him meet other dogs in the lobby of my building?



Some other questions:

~did you carry your pup everywhere during that first month (there is a woman in my building who has been walking her King Cavalier spaniel puppy in the neighbourhood since she brought him home)

~how did you make sure your pup was exposed to children if you didn't know any families with kids?

~did you enroll you pup in puppy class and if so, at what age were you able to do that in your area? How did that go?

Thank you for posing these questions on the forum. I read both on the vaccinations and the socialization; however, I could not tie the timing of these things two together. I had the same questions, but was unable to post the questions in such a concise way.



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Old 09-15-2017, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for posing these questions on the forum. I read both on the vaccinations and the socialization; however, I could not tie the timing of these things two together. I had the same questions, but was unable to post the questions in such a concise way.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm really glad it helped someone else. I was having the same trouble! Everyone's circumstances are different, too--not everyone has the ideal situation for socializing their puppy and balancing health concerns. I definitely don't so I'm calling around in my area to find out if there are classes that require just the first set of vaccines. It's a long time before I get my pup but there's so much to think about (and I have a lot of time on my hands) so I'm finding out as much as I can beforehand
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:43 PM
LoriJack of Hastings, MN
 
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I'm really glad it helped someone else. I was having the same trouble! Everyone's circumstances are different, too--not everyone has the ideal situation for socializing their puppy and balancing health concerns. I definitely don't so I'm calling around in my area to find out if there are classes that require just the first set of vaccines. It's a long time before I get my pup but there's so much to think about (and I have a lot of time on my hands) so I'm finding out as much as I can beforehand

I have been reading everything I can about the Havanese since this past June.



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Old 09-15-2017, 10:37 PM
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I do not have many friends (I can count them on one hand) and the few that I do have do not have children or dogs themselves. . . .
~how did you make sure your pup was exposed to children if you didn't know any families with kids?
~did you enroll you pup in puppy class and if so, at what age were you able to do that in your area? How did that go?
Jay_39, Shama and I consider you to be our friend! You ask such good questions in the forum.

We are lucky to have Dave in this forum to give you such a detailed answer to your questions. I second all that he said.

We are fortunate to live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids, so we had everyone over, and we took Shama out to see the kids when we saw them. We also took her to playgrounds where kids would come over to pet her. I don't remember the exact timing, but I do remember being a bit paranoid about the not-going-out-in-public-until-she's-had-all-her-shots thing.

You could take your puppy to playgrounds. As long as you look like a harmless person and are obviously trying to be near the parents (as opposed to appearing to want to lure the children away from the parents with your cute puppy!) I think that kids and parents will approach you and that cute puppy and ask to pet it. I would recommend telling them that they can pet him/her on the side (not on the head) as long as s/he's got all four paws on the ground. Then I would recommend that you give your puppy treats as they are petting him/her. (One could argue that it's good to get your dog used to getting treats from lots of people, but a friend pointed out that a dog will bond better to you if you're its only source of food, and maybe a dog is less likely to eat something s/he shouldn't if s/he is in the habit of seeking only you out for food - just a thought . . .)

I took Shama to three different puppy classes in the area, and I also took her to Petco's free small breed puppy playtime for a half an hour each Saturday. I can't give a high enough recommendation for puppy classes! I don't recall how old Shama was when she went to these classes. The earlier, the better though!

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing you more in the forum!
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ShamaMama View Post
Jay_39, Shama and I consider you to be our friend! You ask such good questions in the forum.

We are lucky to have Dave in this forum to give you such a detailed answer to your questions. I second all that he said.

We are fortunate to live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids, so we had everyone over, and we took Shama out to see the kids when we saw them. We also took her to playgrounds where kids would come over to pet her. I don't remember the exact timing, but I do remember being a bit paranoid about the not-going-out-in-public-until-she's-had-all-her-shots thing.

You could take your puppy to playgrounds. As long as you look like a harmless person and are obviously trying to be near the parents (as opposed to appearing to want to lure the children away from the parents with your cute puppy!) I think that kids and parents will approach you and that cute puppy and ask to pet it. I would recommend telling them that they can pet him/her on the side (not on the head) as long as s/he's got all four paws on the ground. Then I would recommend that you give your puppy treats as they are petting him/her. (One could argue that it's good to get your dog used to getting treats from lots of people, but a friend pointed out that a dog will bond better to you if you're its only source of food, and maybe a dog is less likely to eat something s/he shouldn't if s/he is in the habit of seeking only you out for food - just a thought . . .)

I took Shama to three different puppy classes in the area, and I also took her to Petco's free small breed puppy playtime for a half an hour each Saturday. I can't give a high enough recommendation for puppy classes! I don't recall how old Shama was when she went to these classes. The earlier, the better though!

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing you more in the forum!
Aww, thanks so much to you and Shama! That's a great idea about the playground and also giving her treats. I will do exactly that It will definitely be a busy first month taking my pup everywhere to meet people of all kinds, but I can't wait
I have found at least one place now that has puppy classes beginning at 8-10 weeks and the standard vaccinations are required (at least the ones required here in Canada--parvo, distemper, parainfluenza, and adenovirus, which is given in a combo vaccine, I believe). I agree--Dave's post was excellent!!
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