Rabies Vaccine Question - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
Puppy Area * Do not advertise dogs for sale here*

 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 9
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Question Rabies Vaccine Question

Hello, My 5 3/4 month old Hav boy Bertie had his rabies shot last week. It was tolerated well, a reduced dose as he is only 7 lbs. I was told he might be a bit off, possibly lethargic.

He has been anything but lethargic, more like he has gotten into some crystal meth. He is racing around, growling at things that he never noticed before, like the furnace fan, birds out the window, bumps in the night. He won't come even when I say, 'treat'. (I know he can't be expected to come reliably yet). His play has become quite rough. He is still teething as he has a bad overbite and base narrow canines as well as delayed dentition. He will have crown reduction and partial pulpectomy and capping end of the year, so it is possible he is in pain, he is on soft diet and eating well, had some tummy grumbling and one loose stool the day after vaccination.

Worst of all he has regressed in his potty training and it is different. Before he was trained he had occasional accidents on bare floor, now he is targetting the Orientals and just after being outside.

I have got him on long lead and upped the number of times we go out. He has a very big yard and I go out with him and praise him every time he goes. He has been lifting his leg outside and marking but the inside ones are not with lifted leg or up walls.

I am not opposed to vaccination, though I am to overvaccination, he will have titers from now on. I am just curious as to whether anyone thinks this is a reaction or just that he is 6 months and has dental issues. He was such a good boy at the vet the day of the shot, my vet said he has a lovely temperament.
Planti is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 01:37 PM
Owned by a Havallon
 
mudpuppymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 427
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planti View Post
Hello, My 5 3/4 month old Hav boy Bertie had his rabies shot last week. It was tolerated well, a reduced dose as he is only 7 lbs. I was told he might be a bit off, possibly lethargic.

He has been anything but lethargic, more like he has gotten into some crystal meth. He is racing around, growling at things that he never noticed before, like the furnace fan, birds out the window, bumps in the night. He won't come even when I say, 'treat'. (I know he can't be expected to come reliably yet). His play has become quite rough. He is still teething as he has a bad overbite and base narrow canines as well as delayed dentition. He will have crown reduction and partial pulpectomy and capping end of the year, so it is possible he is in pain, he is on soft diet and eating well, had some tummy grumbling and one loose stool the day after vaccination.

Worst of all he has regressed in his potty training and it is different. Before he was trained he had occasional accidents on bare floor, now he is targetting the Orientals and just after being outside.

I have got him on long lead and upped the number of times we go out. He has a very big yard and I go out with him and praise him every time he goes. He has been lifting his leg outside and marking but the inside ones are not with lifted leg or up walls.

I am not opposed to vaccination, though I am to overvaccination, he will have titers from now on. I am just curious as to whether anyone thinks this is a reaction or just that he is 6 months and has dental issues. He was such a good boy at the vet the day of the shot, my vet said he has a lovely temperament.
It could be rabies miasm. I would seek the help of a homeopathic vet.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.co...-side-effects/
mudpuppymama is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 02:14 PM
Owned by a Havallon
 
mudpuppymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 427
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudpuppymama View Post
It could be rabies miasm. I would seek the help of a homeopathic vet.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.co...-side-effects/
Here is another great article on rabies miasm.

http://certifiedvethomeopath.com/treat-rabies-miasm/
mudpuppymama is offline  
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 9
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi MPM,

Thank you for those articles, the examples are extreme compared to what I am seeing. Bertie is still being a bit on the hyper side of things but settling a bit. We went for a short car ride after a walk in the rain and he fell asleep as he usually does. I got him a new coat and it was the first time he wore it and I expected he might be a bit uncomfortable but he took it pretty well. I mention this as an indication that he is not being hypersensitive to change but a bit to things that are not new. He is not fearful and eating, drinking, eliminating normally.
I live in a smallish community and we don't have a homeopathic vet here.
I take great pains to keep him toxin free (homemade human grade usually organic meats and fermented veggies, Berkey filtered water, no fire retardants in pet bedding or mine, HEPA filtered air, natural cleaning things). In Canada we have no thymoserol in the pet vaccine. My vet's recommendation was another shot in one year then probably never again. I have been following the Rabies Challenge.
I guess what I am saying is that I had a heightened sense of vigilance about this vaccination and did wait a couple of months longer to give it to him than would normally have been done. We do have rabies endemic in the bats on Vancouver Island and had a recent human death due to a purported bat contact.
I am a human doctor so I know what our minds can do, but I will report my observations, which are possibly subtle or very mild, to my vet and continue to watch closely.
Many thanks, Lauren
Planti is offline  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 05:21 PM
Owned by a Havallon
 
mudpuppymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 427
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planti View Post
Hi MPM,

Thank you for those articles, the examples are extreme compared to what I am seeing. Bertie is still being a bit on the hyper side of things but settling a bit. We went for a short car ride after a walk in the rain and he fell asleep as he usually does. I got him a new coat and it was the first time he wore it and I expected he might be a bit uncomfortable but he took it pretty well. I mention this as an indication that he is not being hypersensitive to change but a bit to things that are not new. He is not fearful and eating, drinking, eliminating normally.
I live in a smallish community and we don't have a homeopathic vet here.
I take great pains to keep him toxin free (homemade human grade usually organic meats and fermented veggies, Berkey filtered water, no fire retardants in pet bedding or mine, HEPA filtered air, natural cleaning things). In Canada we have no thymoserol in the pet vaccine. My vet's recommendation was another shot in one year then probably never again. I have been following the Rabies Challenge.
I guess what I am saying is that I had a heightened sense of vigilance about this vaccination and did wait a couple of months longer to give it to him than would normally have been done. We do have rabies endemic in the bats on Vancouver Island and had a recent human death due to a purported bat contact.
I am a human doctor so I know what our minds can do, but I will report my observations, which are possibly subtle or very mild, to my vet and continue to watch closely.
Many thanks, Lauren
Wow Lauren, you are definitely a woman after my own heart with regard to protecting your fur baby from toxins! Great you avoided the thimerisol too. I am so glad Bertie is doing better and you do not think it is rabies miasm. He is definitely in great hands.

Someone in our family had a dog that became extremely aggressive after the rabies vaccine and they believe it was rabies miasm. So I have seen it firsthand. Very sad situation.

Hope Bertie continues to improve and his dental procedures are successful!

With regard to homeopathic vets, some work with you long distance. Just FYI in case you ever need one.
mudpuppymama is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 05:42 PM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,675
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 299 Times in 297 Posts
I think it's too late for this round, but you might consider getting some Lysinum to have on hand for his booster in a year. This is the homeopathic our integrative vet suggests with Rabies vaccine. (I believe Jean Dodds does also) Being a homeopathic, it can't possibly hurt, and it might help. Who knows?

I have one dog who is on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction (high fever that required hospitalization and supportive care for 2 days) so I understand your concerns about the vaccine.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 9
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi and yes, when I saw your posts on raw I felt we may have similar thoughts on things.
We had a vet who combined facets of allopathic, homeopathic, ayurvedic, TCM and naturopathic schools. One of my other dogs, no longer with me, had a great response to platelet enriched plasma prolotherapy to his previously operated knees (for severe subluxated patellae). It worked very well. She has since moved to a larger centre but I think she might work with me long distance if I see more difficulties. My usual vet doesn't always agree with me but he is always up for debate and never dismissive.

I also had to take some account of my own recent activities, was I giving him less exercise because I feared he might be out of sorts, yes maybe. Was the weather causing something different to happen in the house, and so on. It is hard being a very vigilant dog mommy.

Since we are maybe talking about other issues can I ask your opinion on desexing? Bertie is purebred but never intended for breeding and has a genetic dental condition, however, I can and will stop him from breeding. I have concerns about desexing routinely, as I have always done with my previous charges. I never had the surgery done before 1 year ( and not until 4 for my female who was never bred) but am now reading lots about the consequences later in life of desexing.

Really appreciate your input, Lauren
mudpuppymama likes this.
Planti is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 9
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 0 Times in 0 Posts
(I think it's too late for this round, but you might consider getting some Lysinum to have on hand for his booster in a year. This is the homeopathic our integrative vet suggests with Rabies vaccine. (I believe Jean Dodds does also) Being a homeopathic, it can't possibly hurt, and it might help. Who knows?

I have one dog who is on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction (high fever that required hospitalization and supportive care for 2 days) so I understand your concerns about the vaccine.)

Forgive me as I am new to forums and so don't know how to do the quote thing properly.

I did give a homeopathic by Adored Beast called Anti-Vaccinosis (thuja silica) during his last shots but it was specifically contraindicated for rabies. I did look up on Dr Dodd's site about what to give before rabies and I missed the recommendation of Lysinum. I will definitely search for that online before his next dose in one year, but plan to titre first.

My last three dogs had no immunizations beyond 1.5 years and because I don't travel or board them and had regular veterinary health checks it has not been an issue. However, cancer has been a very big issue despite all my longstanding environmental precautions. They were not Havanese so will not bring them up except to say that desexing seems to cause a lot of stress on dogs. Some countries have banned it unless there are predisposing issues.

I would welcome your opinion and that of your vet if you care to share them.
Lauren
mudpuppymama likes this.
Planti is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 07:42 PM
Owned by a Havallon
 
mudpuppymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 427
Submit Photo: 0
Photo Submissions 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planti View Post
Hi and yes, when I saw your posts on raw I felt we may have similar thoughts on things.
We had a vet who combined facets of allopathic, homeopathic, ayurvedic, TCM and naturopathic schools. One of my other dogs, no longer with me, had a great response to platelet enriched plasma prolotherapy to his previously operated knees (for severe subluxated patellae). It worked very well. She has since moved to a larger centre but I think she might work with me long distance if I see more difficulties. My usual vet doesn't always agree with me but he is always up for debate and never dismissive.

I also had to take some account of my own recent activities, was I giving him less exercise because I feared he might be out of sorts, yes maybe. Was the weather causing something different to happen in the house, and so on. It is hard being a very vigilant dog mommy.

Since we are maybe talking about other issues can I ask your opinion on desexing? Bertie is purebred but never intended for breeding and has a genetic dental condition, however, I can and will stop him from breeding. I have concerns about desexing routinely, as I have always done with my previous charges. I never had the surgery done before 1 year ( and not until 4 for my female who was never bred) but am now reading lots about the consequences later in life of desexing.

Really appreciate your input, Lauren
I am not an expert on spay and neuter, however I thought that they can do ovary sparing spays and vasectomies. My girl and boy were desexed early because back then I knew nothing about it and I just did what the vet recommended. If I had it to do over again, I think I would leave the male intact and do the ovary sparing spay. In an unspayed female, I would be fearful of pyometra and I assume the ovary sparing spay would avoid this and the hormones would still be there. Please note that I am not an expert on this at all, so please get information from those more knowledgeable. My dogs are 10 and 11, both desexed early, and they are very healthy and no joint issues or any sign of arthritis. However, my girl did have a possible minor IVDD incident at age 7 and I have read that this is linked to early spay/neuter. She has been fine ever since, now 11, and I actually wonder if this was diagnosed correctly. I would also welcome opinions from others more knowledgeable.
mudpuppymama is offline  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 09:25 AM
Metrowest, MA
 
krandall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 23,675
Submit Photo: 6
Photo Submissions 299 Times in 297 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planti View Post
(I think it's too late for this round, but you might consider getting some Lysinum to have on hand for his booster in a year. This is the homeopathic our integrative vet suggests with Rabies vaccine. (I believe Jean Dodds does also) Being a homeopathic, it can't possibly hurt, and it might help. Who knows?

I have one dog who is on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction (high fever that required hospitalization and supportive care for 2 days) so I understand your concerns about the vaccine.)

Forgive me as I am new to forums and so don't know how to do the quote thing properly.

I did give a homeopathic by Adored Beast called Anti-Vaccinosis (thuja silica) during his last shots but it was specifically contraindicated for rabies. I did look up on Dr Dodd's site about what to give before rabies and I missed the recommendation of Lysinum. I will definitely search for that online before his next dose in one year, but plan to titre first.

My last three dogs had no immunizations beyond 1.5 years and because I don't travel or board them and had regular veterinary health checks it has not been an issue. However, cancer has been a very big issue despite all my longstanding environmental precautions. They were not Havanese so will not bring them up except to say that desexing seems to cause a lot of stress on dogs. Some countries have banned it unless there are predisposing issues.

I would welcome your opinion and that of your vet if you care to share them.
Lauren
I have discussed it with my vet. I'm sure you know, things have changed over the years. My 10 1/2 year old (who started with a different vet) was neutered at 7 months. Something that makes me sad now. My next girl, who is 4 years 8 months had a laparoscopic ovariectomy after going absolutely nutso with a false pregnancy. We (and the other dogs) just couldn't deal with that. My youngest, 4 yo, is unspayed, and we have no pending plans of changing that. We will deal with it when/if there is a solid reason to do so, not "just because". Her heats are easy, Havanese are at low risk for both pyo and malignant mammary tumors, and I have my hands on her regularly. My vet has been in agreement with these decisions for the girls.

I am not militant about it. I think every family should feel comfortable deciding what is best for them and each dog in their household. The only one I have regrets about is Kodi, my oldest. If I'd known more then, I would have done things differently.

As far as vaccines are concerned, I believe in a minimal vaccine protocol. Again, Kodi got too much because I didn't know enough. The girls each got 2 puppy distemper and parvo shots, and have had only mandatory Rabies since. (just titers for distemper and parvo beyond that) Kodi is now on a Rabies waiver because of a severe reaction. My vet won't touch him with ANY vaccine! LOL!

I also use as LITTLE other chemicals as I can on them and still protect them against heartworm and TBD. We live at ground zero for Lyme and other TBD, so we do need to be careful. But we MOSTLY use management. We might use Advantix once or twice a season if we are heading into a heavily tick-infested area on a camping vacation. They get Interceptor starting in June, every 6 weeks, and ending in November. We titer for TBD twice a year, and for heartworm in the spring before re-starting the Interceptor.

That's the balance we've chosen and it works for us. But I think everyone needs to educate themselves and make their own decisions based on their area, their breed, and their own situation.
mudpuppymama and Jeanniek like this.


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






krandall is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome