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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb Vaccines??

Hi, my havanese Oakley has only had one shot for parvo. My breeder doesn't want him to have any vaccines. He is almost 5 months old and we go hiking in the woods with him daily. There are ticks in this area. Also the other day while we were walking, he brought us a dead mouse present.

I'm really worried about not giving him any shot. My groomers is saying also I should be concerned with distemper because he goes to numerous places where there are other animals.

Any help would be appreciated
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 09:07 PM
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What does your Vet say???

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 11:32 PM
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I cant imagine a breeder not wanting the puppy shots. And are you showing? I mean if you don't have a co owner contract you have the right to do what ever you want. I think 5 mo is a long time and they have to start over again? My vet said that dogs can develop natural immunities and if a dog with out shots has made it to three years old he feels they are safe. I wouldn't like living the gamble.

Maddie at 5mo old
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 11:58 AM
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Parvovirus I believe can be fatal to dogs and esp puppies BC their immune systems aren't fully mature. I think where the controversy with vaccines is the over vaccination part, as many are supposed to be done every 1-3 years. There is a vet that posts regularly, hopefully we can hear from someone with more expertise as I am not a vet.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 03:02 PM
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I can't imagine not giving initial vaccines to my dog. I am very cautious about over vaccination, and there are some vaccines I wouldn't give at all, like Lyme and Lepto. But I CERTAINLY would want to know my dog was protected against both Distemper and Parvo. (and Rabies, of course, as required by law) If you don't want to vaccinate unnecessarily, at least have your vert pull titers to make sure your dog has built up natural immunities. These diseases are deadly... not something to fool around with.


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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 05:01 PM
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Also I would seriously question the ethics of a breeder who doesn't want their dogs vaccinated at all, as that is seriously putting the lives of young puppies at risk. It completely misses the point on where the vaccination issue is. No one is arguing whether to completely right off vaccines. You have your puppy now to love and care for, but if you get a 2nd you might want to look elsewhere.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 05:31 PM
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ditto.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Oakley had one parvo shot when he was 11 weeks old. She said that no further vaccines were necessary. She provided endless data on flea treatments and vacinne, as being toxic to my little Oakley. Well I don't know. I'm like the mom that has everything planned and ready but has never had a puppy before.

So I gave him no further shots.

Then the weather got much nicer (he was indoor trained). He's out walking in very remote wood trails cause we live in the woods. There are fleas, ticks, other animal poop and small dead animals. He brought us a dead field mouse last week on our walk.

In our area ticks carry lymes disease. Since 2002 there were over 60 cases, then in 2012 an outbreak in urban areas of 56 cases on raccoon's. Ticks should be out any time. Lymes disease shots though seem a bit much in terms of quantity and frequency. Also its a virus' so it mutates often' so is the shot up to date with the new strain of the virus. Going to try essential oil repellents.

There are no cases of rabies here. Only need to vaccinate for legal travel issues.

So I think I want to do distemper this month, parvo next month, distemper the next and lastly parvo. Then if the oils repel ticks and fleas no other chemicals or vaccines

I hope I'm doing the right thing. Somewhere between what I thought I would do with regards to vaccines and actually giving a few. I feel I have to for his health. He's just a little wood hiking dog. He's just exposed to a lot.

Sorry to go on. Thanks for your replies
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakley View Post
Oakley had one parvo shot when he was 11 weeks old. She said that no further vaccines were necessary. She provided endless data on flea treatments and vacinne, as being toxic to my little Oakley. Well I don't know. I'm like the mom that has everything planned and ready but has never had a puppy before.

So I gave him no further shots.

Then the weather got much nicer (he was indoor trained). He's out walking in very remote wood trails cause we live in the woods. There are fleas, ticks, other animal poop and small dead animals. He brought us a dead field mouse last week on our walk.

In our area ticks carry lymes disease. Since 2002 there were over 60 cases, then in 2012 an outbreak in urban areas of 56 cases on raccoon's. Ticks should be out any time. Lymes disease shots though seem a bit much in terms of quantity and frequency. Also its a virus' so it mutates often' so is the shot up to date with the new strain of the virus. Going to try essential oil repellents.

There are no cases of rabies here. Only need to vaccinate for legal travel issues.

So I think I want to do distemper this month, parvo next month, distemper the next and lastly parvo. Then if the oils repel ticks and fleas no other chemicals or vaccines

I hope I'm doing the right thing. Somewhere between what I thought I would do with regards to vaccines and actually giving a few. I feel I have to for his health. He's just a little wood hiking dog. He's just exposed to a lot.

Sorry to go on. Thanks for your replies
If you haven't already seen it, here is a link to Dr. Jean Dodd's minimal vaccine protocol, recommended for vaccine sensitive breeds (including Havanese)

http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html

Lyme is tough, as are other tick-borne diseases. The Lyme vaccine is not very effective, and has a high incidence of adverse reactions. I chose NOT to get it for Kodi, even though, like you and your pup, we are in the woods often.

I do keep him protected from ticks as much as possible by using Advantix, which seems to work best in our area. (you will have to check with your local vet on that one... ticks develop resistance to different products in different places) Another problem is that there are at least 4 different diseases carried by ticks, and if your dog gets one, it is likely that they have been exposed to more than one. You just need to be vigilant about tick-checks every time you bring them in from outdoors. I check again just before bed.

The good news is that all the tick borne diseases respond well to antibiotics (Doxycycline) if caught early. So be quick take your dog to the vet if he shows any signs of illness, or mild lameness. Waiting a day or two to "see if it gets better" can give a false sense of safety, because these diseases often go underground for a long time, after the first subtle signs of illness. Just to be on the safe side, my vet draws blood work to check for the 4 most common tick diseases in our area at the same time that she checks for heartworm. If they come up positive, they are treated, even if they show no symptoms.

Knock on wood, we seem to be doing something right... In our area, more than 60% of dogs are sero-positive for Lyme by the time they turn 3. Kodi is almost 4, and is still negative as of his test today!

If there is REALLY no Rabies in your area, then it's great that you can avoid that vaccine. But do remember that Rabies is ALWAYS deadly, and can be a human health hazard if your dog contracts it also. Especially as you say he has contact with wild animals, this would worry me. So you might want to double check whether it is good to forego this one or not.

I think it's a really good idea to limit vaccinations to what is absolutely necessary... you just have to make sure that you do cover those "necessary" bases!


Karen, Kodi, Pixel and Panda
(ARCHMX Starborn Kodak Moment CGC, NTD, BN, PCD, NA, NAJ, CDX-CCH, RE, RLV, RL1X3, RL2X4, RL3X3...
plus Starborn's Picture Perfect & Nauti Herd Compact Flash RN, CGC, NTD, SN-C, RL1)






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