Help Picking Out Puppy: Blue Puppy/Diluting Gene? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Question Help Picking Out Puppy: Blue Puppy/Diluting Gene?

Hi All!

I am picking out an 8 week old Havanese puppy this Saturday! I could not be more excited!!

I have second pick after the breeder (who has already selected a dog to keep for his breeding program). I have been leaning toward the puppy who is the most outgoing, the highest energy, who hits all the developmental milestones first. The breeder has nicknamed him "Mr Happy."

There are two other puppies that I love. BUT, these dogs are a brown brindle right now, and the breeder says they will become a sandy beige color over time. So it sounds like they have a diluting gene as well. Are all dogs that have the diluting gene at risk for health problems, or just the blues?

Looking at this page's explanation (below), it looks like I'm choosing between a puppy that is a [dd] with a [B] and puppies that are [dd] with [bb].
Genetics - D locus

Also, any thoughts about picking the highest energy/most outgoing dog from the litter? I like this about him, but I'm not sure if I'd be setting myself up with a little hellion. I don't know the breed well enough-- this will be my first Havanese. In the past I've had border collies, and I would have never picked the highest energy border collie from the litter!

Thanks for your thoughts!
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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I can't help you at all but I know there are others quite knowledgeable regarding this breed so I'm sure you'll get some answers soon. Welcome to the forum!



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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Zenith360 View Post
Hi All!

I am picking out an 8 week old Havanese puppy this Saturday! I could not be more excited!!

I have second pick after the breeder (who has already selected a dog to keep for his breeding program). I have been leaning toward the puppy who is the most outgoing, the highest energy, who hits all the developmental milestones first. The breeder has nicknamed him "Mr Happy."

There are two other puppies that I love. BUT, these dogs are a brown brindle right now, and the breeder says they will become a sandy beige color over time. So it sounds like they have a diluting gene as well. Are all dogs that have the diluting gene at risk for health problems, or just the blues?

Looking at this page's explanation (below), it looks like I'm choosing between a puppy that is a [dd] with a [B] and puppies that are [dd] with [bb].
Genetics - D locus

Also, any thoughts about picking the highest energy/most outgoing dog from the litter? I like this about him, but I'm not sure if I'd be setting myself up with a little hellion. I don't know the breed well enough-- this will be my first Havanese. In the past I've had border collies, and I would have never picked the highest energy border collie from the litter!

Thanks for your thoughts!
We really do not have a dilute gene in Havanese, and a blue puppy would be a DEFINITEY DQ. It has happened a VERY few times, but it is EXTREMELY rare, and the breeders who have produced blue, have been very careful to remove it from their gene pool. Chocolate is not a dilute. (I assume that's what you mean by "brown"? (we do not use that as a color term in Havanese)

Brindle is a different gene that can be overlayed on any base color, including chocolate, I guess, though I don't think that is common. It would be hard to see, because brindle looks like "tiger stripes of black and tan or black and brown (like on a Whippet or Greyhound) on a young Havanese puppy, before their hair gets too long and hides the striping. I'm not sure how you'd see that on a chocolate, that by definition has no black hair or pigment.

But I have found that many Havanese breeders you the term "brindle" inappropriately for sables with dark masks rather than true brindles. So if that is what the breeder means, it is CERTAINLY possible to have a chocolate sable. How much a sable (chocolate or not) will fade) depends a lot on the bloodlines. Some stay dark, some stay dark and silvery, but lose the reddish undertones, most fade to a cream or whitish color, with just a bit of coloring on the tips of their hair. Once they reach this phase, you can only tell a chocolate sable from a "regular" sable by the color of their pigment and eyes. A non-chocolate sable will have black lips, nose and eye rims, and very dark eyes. A chocolate sable will have chocolate eye rims, nose and lips, and slightly lighter eyes.

In any case, I have not heard the even the very rare dilutes (blues) that have shown up have had any health problems, but if you think there is ANY chance that this puppy is a true dilute, and not just a chocolate, you should discuss this with the breeder. There have also been just a COUPLE of merles that have shown up in the breed, and it is thought that they were new mutations. Fortunately, because they would also be a DQ, no attempt has made by any reputable breeder to purposely produce merles. So we don't know whether there are health concerns related to that color as there are in many breeds.

The bottom line, though, is there are SO many acceptable colors and modifiers in Havanese that we already kind of have the "rainbow" breed. There really is no need to add more colors!


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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Zenith360 View Post
Also, any thoughts about picking the highest energy/most outgoing dog from the litter? I like this about him, but I'm not sure if I'd be setting myself up with a little hellion. I don't know the breed well enough-- this will be my first Havanese. In the past I've had border collies, and I would have never picked the highest energy border collie from the litter!

Thanks for your thoughts!
Oh, as far as this part... Depends on what you want to do with him! If you are looking for a "couch buddy", this type might be trying for the first couple of years. If you are looking for a dog to play agility or other sports, you may want some extra energy. I've always gone for the more energetic ones, but I also am willing to put the work into channeling that energy.

I am willing to bet that the most HYPER Havanese will have more of an "off button" than most BC's. So as a BC person, I don't think there is much they could do that you can't handle!


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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 11:05 AM
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We picked the "most" energetic, dominant puppy from the litter, color was irrelevant to us, but he is black with white feet. He is a pistol, and we love that. He is high energy, although at 10 months is slowing down a little- a good play buddy is very important, and he plays with friends every day. He is not cuddly, more independent; he will stay by me like glue, but not want to sit with me or necessarily need to be in physical contact. He can be bossy, and we often have disagreements as to how much we play etc. etc... That said, super quick learner and easy to train, but you must be consistent. Huge personality, confident and friendly, good with children. Good dog sense, with good judgement, so not foolhardy. But again, work, a good trainer, and the ability to be consistent and persistent with these high energy, dominant types I think. (This is our third dog, first Havanese)
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 12:03 AM
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Havs vs BCs

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...I am willing to bet that the most HYPER Havanese will have more of an "off button" than most BC's. So as a BC person, I don't think there is much they could do that you can't handle!

I'm not an expert in either Border Collies or Havs (Perry is my first) - but if I were to guess even the most hyper Hav is probably equivalent to the bottom 10% of border collies' hyper-ness quota
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 05:31 AM
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It sounds like you know what you want to me. Some Havanese want to leap into your lap and some want to bring you a toy to throw and occasionally lay next to your thigh while you are on couch. Best we all stay off couches of course, but if you want play, go with the most adventurous pup!

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:01 AM
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hyper

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It sounds like you know what you want to me. Some Havanese want to leap into your lap and some want to bring you a toy to throw and occasionally lay next to your thigh while you are on couch. Best we all stay off couches of course, but if you want play, go with the most adventurous pup!
Perry is pretty chill but even when he gets a little hyper about 10 minutes (max) of throwing his ball and he's ready to chill out again
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 06:36 AM
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It sounds like you know what you want to me. Some Havanese want to leap into your lap and some want to bring you a toy to throw and occasionally lay next to your thigh while you are on couch. Best we all stay off couches of course, but if you want play, go with the most adventurous pup!
Every time any family member comes home Patti always! greets us with a toy. She'll run in another room to get one. Not to play. It's like a gift.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 07:31 AM
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Every time any family member comes home Patti always! greets us with a toy. She'll run in another room to get one. Not to play. It's like a gift.
Patti's graciousness has my heart!
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