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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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New here....considering a Havanese

Hi everyone! This is my first post. I lost my first and only dog in December of 2018-a sweet 12 yr old Maltese girl I'd had since puppy hood. I didn't think we'd be ready to get another for a good year, but I was smitten by a little boy Maltese on a rescue site about 3 months ago. He was 2 yrs old and seemed very placid and loving for the first 2 weeks. Then, his negative traits surfaced. He turned out to have a very aggressive side including lunging and full puncture bites without provocation. He was a dangerous dog in an adorable package. We had him assessed by a trainer and behaviorist and they agreed that intense behavioral training might help, but "he'd never be a completely trustworthy dog and a huge liability." With grandchildren in our not too distant future, we decided to return him to the rescue where it looks like he might be in permanent foster care. This broke our hearts as we wanted to give him a good life, but couldn't live in fear of him sending a family member or stranger to the hospital. It was particularly difficult surrendering him especially after losing our girl just 8 months ago.

I'm a little gun shy of rescuing again and decided I'll probably go with a puppy or young adult from a reputable breeder next time. I love Maltese but am thinking that perhaps getting a similar breed that looks a little different might be less painful than getting another Maltese. I've come upon the Havanese and think this breed is what I'm looking for .....a little sturdier than a Maltese, non shedding and happy temperament. Any thoughts on how these 2 breeds compare?
I'm in Ct but see there are a couple of breeders in RI-one has a great website but a few bad reviews (red flag) and the other ( Quickstep), which seems reputable. Can anyone recommend any other good breeders in the Northeast?

Also, I had no preference as to gender, but after experiencing both sexes, I've discovered that walking a male means lots of stops along the way to mark; at least that was the case with the little guy I rescued. Is is possible to get in walks at a good pace without stopping at every leaf, pole, mailbox etc enroute with a maledog? Aside from this concern, it really doesn't matter if I get a male or female.

I'd appreciate some thought on this from current Havanese owners. Thanks so much!
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 12:50 PM
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 05:18 PM
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Welcome! I can't help with a comparison between Havanese and Maltese but I can tell you that havis are amazing little dogs. Loving, happy, funny! My 3 yr. old male loves little kids too. When we are out walking he pulls towards every little one. It is so funny. And yes, you can teach a male dog not to stop and sniff everything. You just have to teach them to walk with you and keep them close. I usually let Loki sniff for the first and last 5 minutes or so of our walks because it is good for them to sniff and smell but he walks along at a good clip when I ask him to. Our second puppy is coming home in 3 weeks. Walking with 2 may be a challenge!
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:13 PM
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You've come to the wrong place, if you're looking for any negative comments about Havanese. They're not only adorable, lovable companion dogs but they're extremely smart and Funny!! One consideration is they are high maintenance because they have human hair that needs frequent combing and bathing. Keeping it short helps reduce that issue. Our little one loves everyone: Kids, adults and even men! Well...after she gets to know you. They can, also, be Indoor Housebroken - if it's inconvenient for them to go outside or in cases where you have to walk a dog for elimination purposes.
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 12:57 AM
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The one thing I warn people who are interested in Havanese is to be aware that these guys are bred to be companion dogs and they really, really want to be near their human family. They generally love children and make wonderful therapy dogs...they gaze at people with these deep soulful eyes, but they do not like to be alone. You can train them to accept staying by themselves when necessary, but they want to do their jobs, which is to be companions to their humans. They are sometimes called velcro dogs for a reason...companionship is part of their makeup, which makes them wonderful, but maybe not for a family that is gone alot....
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 04:08 AM
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Welcome to the forum!
The havanese are wonderfully loving, smart, humorous and eager-to-please.
The havanese is a big dog in a small package.
They are generally one-person dogs, and will follow their person around with great loyalty, while still making himself available to be sweet to all family members.
(some call this a needy, or velcro-dog).
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 07:57 AM
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I'll add one more thing. Havanese are agile dogs who used to be Circus Dogs. In many ways they are similar to cats in their agility. They are often found on the top of kitchen counter tops. My little one is 1.5 years old and we still have two gates in the house. We live in an inter-generational home with a daughter and two teen-age grandsons. The boys have a gate across their door because Patti has taken a liking to their $200 Ear Buds and other digital toys and she has damaged two sets of Ear-Buds which had to be replaced. Fortunately, daughter takes out insurance on these expensive "kid toys." I think (hope) they've finally learned to put them up as they can't leave them sitting around on their desks tops, just incase Patti decides to jump over the gate. Patti is very curious and is always checking out table tops. Eye glasses (especially mine) and ink pens are another favorites.

As she mature's -- I hope -- she outgrows her interest in investigating. Some of it she considers play ... or earning a treat to Drop It. We're all become pretty good about keeping things picked up.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 04:43 PM
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Maltese and Havanese are very similar, with the Havanese maybe a touch larger/sturdier, (depending on the individual... I have one who is Maltese size)) and a little less intense and yappy, in general, though again, that varies in both breeds.

If the "other" breeder you came across in RI was Royal Flush, run, don't walk. They are a puppy mill, pure and simple. Pam Sowa (Quick Step) is a show breeder, and does all appropriate testing. There are a number of other good breeders in New England, though no one else has litters expected at the moment that I know of. It is pretty typical to talk to some breeders, get on a waiting list or two with breeders that you like, and wait for a puppy from a good breeder. It is really uncommon just to go out and "find" a good quality puppy when you first start looking. I waited a year to find my first one, had identified my breeder and waited 2 years for my second one, and scrambled to make it work out when the third showed up as "the right puppy at the wrong time."


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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, Royal Flush is not on my list. I did put my name on Quicksteps waiting list- their site says they’re “ expecting a litter in mid July”, but I’m wondering if their site is up to date and it didn’t apply to 2019. I don’t think we’ll be ready until next Spring or Summer. Can you share the kennel names of the other reputable breeders in New England?
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krandall View Post
Maltese and Havanese are very similar, with the Havanese maybe a touch larger/sturdier, (depending on the individual... I have one who is Maltese size)) and a little less intense and yappy, in general, though again, that varies in both breeds.
If the "other" breeder you came across in RI was Royal Flush, run, don't walk. They are a puppy mill, pure and simple. Pam Sowa (Quick Step) is a show breeder, and does all appropriate testing. There are a number of other good breeders in New England, though no one else has litters expected at the moment that I know of. It is pret
ty typical to talk to some breeders, get on a waiting list or two with breeders that you like, and wait for a puppy from a good breeder. It is really uncommon just to go out and "find" a good quality puppy when you first start looking. I waited a year to find my first one, had identified my breeder and waited 2 years for my second one, and scrambled to make it work out when the third showed up as "the right puppy at the wrong time."
For me calling a large commercial dog breeder a Puppy Mill when it does not fit the definition of a true Puppy Mill is a Conundrum.

A description of a Puppy Mill is where dogs are kept exclusively for breeding and treated inhumanly. They are typically subject to brutal treatment and poor conditions. Dogs are kept in wire cages with wire floors stacked 2, 3 or 4 high. Urine and poop fall on the dogs below. This is done to save space and allow more pets to be kept. The dogs are in poor health, fur is matted with urine and feces. They are not socialized and stay with their birth mothers until they are sold to pet stores around 6 weeks.

In Oklahoma, places like this are illegal and it has been illegal for Pet Stores to sell dogs or cats for some time.

It does not appear to me that Royal Flush meets the description of a Puppy Mill, except they are breeding dogs on a large commercial scale. They actually have a lot of positive reviews, provide six year health guarantees. AKC has inspected and approved their operation. RF do health checks, socializes the dogs and all the other things a smaller breeder does ... except they are much larger and while RF dogs don't live in a home environment, they appear to be in a clean, positive environment surrounded by caretakers.

I did not buy a dog from RF but I did buy Patti from a smaller commercial breeder similar to Tom's situation. They operate a horse ranch and breed dogs for profit. Their dogs are socialized have health guarantees, AKC registered, inspected, provide health guarantee. The are routinely visited by an AKC representative. I visited the operation twice and picked Patti up from there. I talked with the local AKC representative who had positive things to say about the opertation and quality of their dogs. Yet ... this operation has been called a Puppy Mill for a Havanese Group.

My point is this: Even though RF or commercial breeders are frowned up by many/some Havanese Advocates, I think to lump good commercial breeders who care about their dogs and strive to produce good quality pets and call them Puppy Mills ... is troublesome. Not everyone who wants to own a Havanese can locate or find a small Show Dog breeder, even though this is the ideal situation. So where are they going to buy a good quality and healthy Havanese? Hopefully, NOT from a Puppy Mill. Those businesses should be closed and the owners thrown in jail.

This is not a criticism for those who do not like commercial breeders, I just have a problem when they're called Puppy Mills.
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