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She won't eat

9K views 91 replies 13 participants last post by  sema4dogz 
#1 ·
My 9 month old Havanese has stopped eating , more or less, in the last few days . She has always had the breeders recommended diet of homemade patties of ground beef and/or chicken and raw grated vegetables , and raw pieces of chicken wing. I also give her Royal Canin puppy mix and occasional treats . She has never been a greedy eater though always finished up all she was given . Once or twice before she has suddenly gone 24 hours or more or without eating but this time she has hardly had anything in three days. She appears perfectly fine otherwise and as active as usual.
She has has some diarrhoea which I put down to drinking sea water, a habit I find hard to stop her from doing ( we walk on the beach every day)
It has got warm the last few days (South Australia) and she is a dog who has always sought cold places to lie so I wondered if that might be it .
I am worried …
 
#2 ·
I think the best advice would be to call your vet. Going three days without eating seems excessive to me and I would want some piece of mind about what is going on, especially with the diarrhea. I would imagine that drinking the sea water may not be the best thing also. I hope she is feeling better soon and welcome to the forum.
 
#3 ·
I would definitely go to the vet and try to take a stool sample too so she can check for parasites. If she is not drinking either I would be concerned about dehydration and would try to get some water into her. Even wetting her lips with water and having her lick it will help.
 
#4 ·
Thank you so much Molly and Mud . It seems the mere act of joining and posting on the Havanese Forum cured her . She has no diarrhoea, completely normal poohs,and has just eaten a large mince and veggie patty and plenty of Royal Canin dry .I confess I sprinkled a bit of grated cheese on it all which she finds irresistible and did so this time too.

The sea water thing is a problem, many dogs do it but usually they seem to learn more quickly than she has .I always carry fresh water now and try to head her off with it. I should have added to my first post that she never stopped drinking fresh water
during all this

Thank you so much again for your concern.
 
#5 ·
Thank you so much Molly and Mud . It seems the mere act of joining and posting on the Havanese Forum cured her . She has no diarrhoea, completely normal poohs,and has just eaten a large mince and veggie patty and plenty of Royal Canin dry .I confess I sprinkled a bit of grated cheese on it all which she finds irresistible and did so this time too.

The sea water thing is a problem, many dogs do it but usually they seem to learn more quickly than she has .I always carry fresh water now and try to head her off with it. I should have added to my first post that she never stopped drinking fresh water
during all this

Thank you so much again for your concern.
That is wonderful news! Dogs are such amazing creatures and sometimes they resolve issues on their own. It is so hard to know when to go to the vet. When my yorkie was young he showed signs of a possible obstruction and the vet scheduled surgery. On the morning surgery was scheduled I took him out to go potty and he walked two miles. Whatever was bothering him was completely resolved! I was so relieved and happy!
 
#6 ·
Good to hear that she is eating! These little dogs can make you crazy!
My previous dog would have ailments and I would make an appt., we'd get to the vets and he'd be fine! Sometimes he would get over his ailment when I would announce that I'm going to call Dr. T.
A few times, I would just drive him over and the "ailment" would be gone once he got out of the car. He would walk in the door, wagging his tail, giving kisses to the girls and begging for a treat!
 
#7 ·
Oh thank you . The little wretch, its like she waited just long enough to make me really anxious . Just like she comes every time I call her on the beach...….except the last time when the lead is to be put back on. Or, if I'm honest , if there is something awful to roll in/eat/play with.
I say she has the lineage of an aristocrat but the soul of a guttersnipe.
So glad your naughty wretches were ok too.
 
#8 ·
Sema4dog, glad your little one is doing well! Just one word, since it sounds like you feed both raw and kibble, it is best not to combine them in the same meal. You see, kibble/canned digest more slowly than raw so mixing them slows the entire digestion process down. :smile2:
 
#18 ·
Not true., they can eat this way fine.
 
#9 ·
I’m certain mine would try to drink seawater if he had the chance. I do the same thing, I have to carry fresh water and be ready to intervene (streams and such, no oceans near me), but it seems to do the trick, unless I’m not quite fast enough!

I’m glad you are feeling better and she’s eating again!
 
#14 ·
Our 3 year old is definitely a self-regulator. He will easily go 24 hrs and then eat. Sometimes he eats treats other times he leaves them on the floor, except his cookie (a fruitable) before bed. He always eats that. On the other hand, we have a 20 week old puppy who acts like he has never been given food at every meal. He eats 4 times a day and acts famished each and every time. I feed in a Kong to slow him down otherwise he would wipe out a meal in 20 seconds. He is a poop eater, the vet suggested feeding him more often to fill him up to see if that helped but that isn't working. He has gained almost 3 pounds in 4 weeks. The vet isn't worried about his weight but I wish just once he wouldn't act like I never fed him! LOL
 
#15 ·
Mia loves food and does not understand the concept of self regulation! I took her to an experienced trainer years ago who told me he had never ever seen a dog as food oriented! He said I should be able to train her to do anything...which hasn’t really happened likely due to my poor dog training skills!
 
#20 ·
Krystal, don’t feel bad about getting your head bit off by davetgabby...has happened to me several times. For example, I got chewed out for saying that peas, legumes and potatoes are species inappropriate foods for a dog. Have to walk around on egg shells with regard to vaccines too. It is unfortunate that people cannot freely express different view points on a forum without being treated rudely. I hope you stick around because I am sure you have lots to offer.
 
#23 ·
Krystal, don't feel bad about getting your head bit off by davetgabby...has happened to me several times. For example, I got chewed out for saying that peas, legumes and potatoes are species inappropriate foods for a dog. Have to walk around on egg shells with regard to vaccines too. It is unfortunate that people cannot freely express different view points on a forum without being treated rudely. I hope you stick around because I am sure you have lots to offer.
No worries, mudpuppymama! I am not offended in the least. I understand everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to them. I enjoy sharing my knowledge and experience with others in case someone needs help with a beloved companion. Honestly, I don't mind a little back and forth banter at times, as long as it is kept respectful and in the best interests of the animals we are guardians of. :wink2:
 
#27 ·
I'd like to know specifically what a good diet is for a a Havanese. I'm feeding mine Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Chicken and/or Beef, topped with a little Honest Kitchen Chicken and/or Beef Broth. In addition, to a few dry pieces of Instinct Raw pieces.
 
#28 ·
Mikki, in my opinion a raw homemade diet is the best diet for a dog. However, it needs to be balanced so it is good to have someone guide you like Krystal. She is an animal naturopath who has been feeding raw for many years. Believe me if I can do it, you can too. All it takes is some desire on your part and someone to guide you. It really is not that hard and is not expensive for a small dog like a Havanese. I have been doing it for 10 years now and my dogs are very healthy and have no allergies. I really think it is the best thing you can do to help your dog to be healthy. Learning something new is always scary but you can do it. There are also lots of good raw food suppliers these days which help make things easier.
 
#44 ·
here is why I believe only qualified people should give significant advice on nutrition

Doing it right Jean Dodds

The biggest concern with homemade diets is that, unless properly formulated and followed, the diet may not be nutritionally balanced. For this reason, I strongly advise that you obtain your recipe from a reputable source, such as a book published by a holistic or holistically minded veterinarian, board-certified veterinary nutritionist, or canine/feline nutritionist where the recipes have been tested and verified as nutritionally balanced. If you are able, you can also consult with a reputable animal nutritionist to design the diet.

When preparing a homemade diet for your dog or cat, it's essential to stick to the ingredients listed. Substituting ingredients can result in a diet that is no longer nutritionally balanced. Also, be sure to add all vitamin/mineral and any other supplements as directed; these supplements are essential to ensuring that the diet is properly balanced

Dr. Becker

First, many homemade and prey-model diets and a few commercially available raw food diets are unbalanced. This means pets have been brought to veterinarians, including me, with nutritional imbalances that could and should have been avoided. These animals are deficient in antioxidants, or the correct amounts of trace minerals and vitamins, or the right fatty acid balance for appropriate and balanced skeletal growth, and organ and immune health.

Usually, these well-intentioned owners don't correlate their pet's medical issues with nutritional deficiencies, but their vets do. And many veterinarians develop very strong opinions against all homemade and raw diets because of these cases. There are many well-meaning people who feed unbalanced diets out of ignorance and, in some cases, stubbornness.

I've had several clients tell me they don't care that the analysis of their pet's current diet - let's say, chicken wings and burgers - demonstrates deficiencies in certain critical nutrients. They believe that "This is the diet I've fed for X number of years and my dog is doing fine, so there's no need to change it."

Dr. Becker ..." #13 Dead last on the list and the worst thing you can feed your pet is an unbalanced, homemade diet - raw or cooked. I'm seeing an increasing number of misguided pet owners in my practice who think they're doing the right thing by serving their pet, say, a chicken breast and some veggies and calling it a day.

Yes, the food is homemade, but it's nutritionally unbalanced. Pets being fed this way are showing up at my clinic with endocrine abnormalities, skeletal issues and organ degeneration as a result of deficiencies in calcium, trace minerals and omega fatty acids.

Catherine Lane http://www.thepossiblecanine.com/la...k-myths-and-misperceptions-about-home-feeding

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10666 study on home prepared
 
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#56 ·
To Mudpuppymama ...I too have difficulty with some of your posts. I think you generalize too much. Examples include ...

.... " most vets have had about 1 hour of nutritional training given by large pet food companies like Purina so most of them are clueless about dog nutrition"

... ." I just read about Cerenia and it sounds like a horrid toxic drug. They keep coming up with more stuff to poison our animals with "

.... " People spend hours on training dogs for agility, obedience and many other things. Maybe they could take a little of that time and effort and work with a knowledgeable person to learn how to feed their dog a more healthy diet."

If you want you can read this article that shows dog sports people do better at feeding their dogs than the general public does here ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672316/

This statement you made I can't figure out? " "Krystal, don't feel bad about getting your head bit off by davetgabby...has happened to me several times. For example, I got chewed out for saying that peas, legumes and potatoes are species inappropriate foods for a dog." ...... Where on this thread did I "chew you out" ? here is the 2 page thread ... .......... https://www.havaneseforum.com/6-general-discussion/134034-update-taurine-heart-disease.html I think you actually thanked me and Sabine for the input?

To answer Krystal's question ..... Sabine is a nutritionist out of Los Angeles who has become a good friend to me and has done numerous food consultations for this forum for 12 years. She is always willing to share her knowledge with me and I like to share it here.
 
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#59 ·
Dave,

Please accept my sincere apology for accusing you of biting my head off in a previous post. I actually recalled this post incorrectly. It was the one where I felt I was accused of feeding too many proteins to my dog and that I should reserve some out for potential allergies. I took this a little personal and I do not agree with it. Anyway it still was NOT a case where you bit my head off! Accusing you of biting my head off was purely a knee jerk emotional reaction on my part because I did not like the way you publicly accused Krystal for not being qualified for her profession without talking to her privately or getting more details. I felt this was a very serious accusation and it upset me. However, my knee jerk reaction is just as bad! What I said was inexcusable and I do offer my sincerest apology.

With regard to Cerenia, I feel this is a dangerous drug to be used very judiciously. It can be deadly because it suppresses vomiting which is one of a dog's main defense mechanisms. For example, although vomiting is inconvenient, it can save a dog if they ingest something bad or get an obstruction. If vomiting is suppressed in this case the dog could die. This is why I would avoid using it. Who knows when the dog may ingest a poison or eat something bad. I think drugs have their place but should only be used as a last resort. And I feel too often they are used as a first resort. I believe in starting with the least invasive approach.

With regard to your views that I am anti-vet and think dog sports people are clueless about nutrition, I tried to explain this is in my previous post. I do not believe that ALL vets are horrid and I do not believe that dog sports people are morons who feed their dogs Old Roy from Walmart. I am not sure where this came from or if I will ever dig myself out of this hole. A vet is critical for our dog's health and they are invaluable in treating acute illness and orthopedic issues. However, I do think many of them have contributed to chronic disease in our pets by over vaccinating and prescribing drugs to suppress symptoms vs. getting to root cause. I also feel many of them could do better at nutritional guidance. However, there are also some vets out there that are very good so this is very promising. In the mean time, I think we all need to try to take more control of our dog's health and not be afraid to seek out second opinions or switch vets if necessary. With regard to dog sports people, I am sure they love and care for their dogs to be willing to put in all that effort. And the dogs would not be able to do what they do without adequate nutrition.

Sorry I do not always express myself perfectly.

Again, please accept my sincere apology for my inappropriate knee jerk emotional reaction.

Thanks,
Nancy
 
#57 · (Edited)
Interesting conversation that's - Over My Head. :laugh2:

Bottomline: People should not rush into feeding their dogs a Raw Diet, unless they educate themselves and get advice from knowledgeable experts. Although, Vets maybe recommending Hills and Purina due to lobbying and other financial incentives, it's probably adequate and healthy dog food - IMO.

I remember the days when I went to the grocery store and had a couple of choices of dry dog food or canned. The canned appealed to me, so I feed my Poodle twice a day, never thinking about what was in dog food and she lived a robust and healthy life to age 17+. Although, in her old-age she developed cataracts and started growing some warts. Even though she was almost blind she got around the house and yard without any problems. Now days Vets are performing expensive Cataract surgeries. :|

After struggling to figure out what and how to feed our New-Age Havanese Puppy/Dog - I finally found Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Chicken or Beef, adding in a bit of Honest Kitchen Chicken or Beef Broth to it and topping it off a few crunchy bits of Instinct Raw is Bowel-Licking-Good, according to Patti.

It's Expensive and has Great Reviews. So, it must be Good?! :peace:

Fortunately I have a small dog who only needs a little more than 1/2Cup Dry (1 C hydrated) a day. I figure this commercial dog food producer knows more than I wanna know about how to make dog food. I'm having a hard enough time figuring out what my family's suppose to eat now that Red Meat is bad for you and Vegan Diets are In. :wink2:
 
#60 · (Edited)
Once again your description of what I said to her is inaccurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandGlenn View Post
It could be his body is needing live enzymes. Soil based enzymes for carnivores are best. Pet Flora makes a great one. You can find it on amazon.

My response to her...
"Are you a nutritionist or a vet? This is not good advice"

I did not say that she was " not being qualified for her profession" without talking to her privately or getting more details.

I said this, not because her statement was inaccurate, but that it was ill-advised to guess what might be wrong let alone recommend a remedy even if it was over-the-counter. This is for vets or nutritionists , not a CSAN .... see article below

https://aanmc.org/news/difference-between-traditional-naturopath-and-licensed-naturopathic-doctor/
 
#61 ·
as an example , I asked a member of our dog training group about the use of a particular OTC and here is her reply ...

Dave, you can use it yourself but you cannot recommend any kind of medication to your clients. Even OTC meds and supplements can have drug interactions or side effects that may be contraindicated in a patient depending on that patient's health history.

Lore I. Haug, DVM, MS, DACVB, CABC
Texas Veterinary Behavior Services
2627 Cordes Dr.
Sugar Land, TX 77479
281-980-3737
281-313-1849 fax
www.texasvetbehavior.com
LIhaug@aol.com
APDT #692, IAABC
 
#63 ·
Janet I could not agree more! Thank you for suggesting this.

I am tired of this endless banter and word smithing and trying to defend myself. I made a sincere apology to Dave for an emotional knee jerk and I have tried to justify everything I have been accused of. In a forum where people are passionate about something, occasionally someone will say something not quite right and another will interpret it not quite right. Let's forgive and forget and remember this is about the dogs...not our petty differences.

Anyway, I will not be a bother to anyone anymore as I have decided to no longer participate. I do not like having to worry about someone getting their panties in a bind because I might inadvertently say something wrong. And then having to spend hours trying to extract burrs out of people's asses is simply torture.

Best wishes to everyone! There are some great people here but emotionally I cannot take this forum any longer. And here is to your healthy and happy Havanese dogs...the greatest breed on earth!
 
#70 ·
Here is a detailed description of Small Animal Naturopathy. Although, I'm old and think I know a lot :nerd: there's always something new to learn. Interesting synopsis.

https://highlandglennranch.com/animal-naturopathy/

I'd like to know how to treat fleas without giving dogs a pill. The flea has to bite the dog to die. Maybe Flea Collars work better: Those old timey-things I use to use. We treat our yard, which for the most part solves the problem in that area but not when I take Patti out for walks in other places.
 
#71 ·
#73 · (Edited)
Wow, lots of posts to reply to! LOL

First of all, I agree with Janet. I personally will not continue beating this dead horse. Time for me to move on to the topics I joined this group for anyway, all about the Havanese breed! :wink2:

My animal naturopath practice is Radiant Animal Wellness. Just Google it. There are a few blog posts on it that can help clarify what we do.

Yes, CSAN stands for a certified small animal naturopath. (krandall, I did not see your question until this morning. We live on an off-grid ranch so we are not only busy with ranch life but also have limited power for internet use; only on every few days usually.) It's nice that human naturopaths can count the hours involved in their education. Not for us! We are board-certified. You may have heard of Kingdom College (KC)? The course I took was a pre-requisite for their veterinary naturopath students. Google KC.

I understand anything new, outside the allopathic box, is going to be criticized, strongly and loudly... and often! But I do still feel it is quite unfair. Oh well. Animal naturopathy is self-evident, too, and in the long run, that is what truly matters... that the animals are helped. Animal naturopaths fill a gap in animal health care. We are not anti-veterinarian by any means, fyi.

And mudpuppymama, it has been such a pleasure to meet you, I hope you will stick around, too.

I'll be seeing you all around the forum. Have a lovely day! :smile2:
 
#81 ·
Domestic dogs are not carnivores. They are scavengers. Domestic dogs that get loose near humans can (and do) become feral, living by scavanging off human waste of all sorts. Leave domestic dogs to their own devices in the wild, away from human habitation and the vast majority cannot learn to hunt effectively enough to sustain themselves. They die. There is a good reason that they have evolved to not only be able to tolerate, but to process and use foods other than meat. Without these other foods, they could not survive without being fed by humans. In their ability to process non-meat food, they are more like coyotes than wolves (with whom they can also interbreed,even though they are not as closely related). Coyotes have become extremely successful near human habitation because they also can benefit from human food waste. As a result, their population is thriving across the continent, and their range has expanded from coast to coast.

Wolves, OTOH have not been able to survive in close proximity to humans. Of course part of this is direct human persecution. But it is also the effect civilization has had on their prey and hunting territories. They have not been able to adapt to slipping through backyards and raiding trash bins.
 
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#82 ·
I think this “Is my dog a wolf” topic has gotten out of control and some of the key points of this thread have been lost. Here is my attempt to get it back on track.

1. If a human, dog or any other animal is starving, they will eat anything they can get their hands (or paws) on to survive. Some Holocaust survivors ate grass, however I am not about to serve up some grass clippings for dinner. Just because a starving animal will eat something and even derive some benefit from it does not mean that it is what is best for them.

2. My dog is not a wolf, coyote or some wild dog that is forced to rummage for food in trash cans. I have a domesticated dog who is dependent upon me to feed it a healthy diet. Therefore, I do my best to feed it as healthy a diet as I can.

3. In my opinion, humans and dogs do better eating foods that are not processed. Therefore, I do not feed processed foods to the humans in my household and I do not feed kibble to my dogs. If you want more information on how processed foods have impacted human health, please look at the research done by Weston A. Price.

4. I disregard most studies on raw feeding because kibble is a multi billion dollar industry and therefore getting unbiased opinions is virtually impossible. I pay attention to the natural rearing breeders who have been feeding raw for as many as 30 years, have personally seen its benefits and have raised many generations of healthy dogs on it. I have been feeding raw to my dogs for 10 years and have also seen the benefits myself. For example, Mia used to have terrible tear stains and no longer has any. My yorkie used to smell terrible and I would have to bathe him every two weeks. I have not bathed him in six months and he has no smell at all. I do not have to give my dogs chews because their chewing desires are satisfied by eating their food.

5. Just because a diet is raw does not make it a good diet. It has to be balanced and the quality of the ingredients is important.

6. Everyone needs to make their own decision on what to feed their dog and respect the decisions of others even if different than their own.
 
#83 ·
23andMe says I'm 59% more Neanderthal compared to other 23andMe's DNA. One wouldn't guess looking at me I'm so much Neanderthal. :surprise: Thank Goodness.

Like my Domestic Dog who is not a Wolf but has a bit of it's DNA ... I'm not a Neanderthal even though I have some of their DNA. Neither my dog nor I eat exactly like our ancestors, although there are some similarities, we have a lot more flexibility these days.

There's a whole lot of controversy about my Neanderthal relatives eating habits. Some say they only ate Meat or Fish- raw and/or cooked. Other's say they only ate plants. Some-People justify their diets because it's the way their ancestors ate.

Forks-Over-Knives philosophy is Humans are not meant to eat meat protein. Plant Based food is what our ancestors ate and what was good for them is good for us. (they have lots of studies to prove it) Cows milk is for baby cows not human babies. Even eggs from a chicken is for ... well I'm not sure. I'll have to ask me Vegan Daughter about that. BTW - She does look wonderful and is very healthy.

Like humans, dogs do well on a variety of different type of diets depending on one's Beliefs and good nutrition practices.

For Fun - Below is a List of a Few - Vegan/Vegetarian Type of Diets. I didn't want to over-whelm the Internet with descriptions and only included a couple. If interested you can Google.

Fruitarian (fruit only diet)
Some fruitarians will eat only fruit, possibly only fruit that has fallen from the plant. Others will eat only fruits, nuts, and seeds. And others will eat any part of a plant that will not harm the plant if removed, so they may include some leaves. Raw fruitarians will only eat raw fruits.

Raw vegan

Vegan (plant based diet)My Daugher
Vegans will not eat animal products. Usually this includes meat, poultry, fish/seafood, and anything obtained from animals such as milk products and eggs. Honey is often not eaten. The vegan diet is also known as a plant-based diet, especially when it's being followed for health rather than ethical reasons.

Raw vegetarian
Raw vegetarians may eat raw milk products in addition to vegetables. A few may eat raw eggs. They will not eat cooked/heated produce, or cooked/heated milk products, eggs, meat, poultry, or fish/seafood. They define raw foods as those that have not been cooked above 104 to 118 degrees Fahrenheit (40-48 degrees centigrade/Celsius) - the temperature varies among the raw food community.

Lacto-vegetarian

Ovo-lacto-vegetaria

Pescetarian
Pollo-pescetarian

Flexitarian (also known as semi-vegetarian)This is ME
Flexitarians will often eat meals with little or no meat, poultry or fish/seafood. They do not consider animal protein to be central to meals

I have friends who only eat Meat Protein, No Carbs. My husband...anything Fried is Fantastic.
 
#85 ·
Mikki, this is hilarious! I had no idea there were so many ways for us to eat. I wonder if you are familiar with Weston A. Price. He was a dentist long ago who noticed that people's teeth were getting worse and worse and he wanted to find out why. He visited several civilizations around the world where processed food had never been introduced. He discovered that they had outstanding teeth and were very healthy...hardly anyone had a cavity. These different civilizations ate totally different foods based upon their environment. For example, Eskimos ate no vegetables at all. In the Swiss Alps, people ate lots of milk and cheese. These people all ate very differently but were all super healthy and had great teeth. The one thing they had in common was that they had never eaten processed foods. He went back years later to visit many of these people again after processed foods were introduced. He found that their teeth were worse and they were more unhealthy. As far as some groups not eating meat, I don't recall any in that category. I guess what I am saying is that eliminating processed foods from our diet seems to make a difference, regardless of what the diet is. For example, if a person becomes vegan and simultaneously eliminates processed foods and that person becomes healthier, is it because they are vegan or because they eliminated the processed foods?
 
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