Havanese Forum banner

1 - 20 of 145 Posts

·
Janet Hicks
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Results are in on the first reported blue Havanese with Color Dilute Alopecia. This is horrible news for our breed! When we started the SA (Sebaceous Adenitis) study, there were a LOT of folks that thought it was unnecessary and a waste of money since it was so rare. Surprise folks, SA is not rare. Now CDA shows up and I am for one very frightened for our breed if this spreads.

Someone shared this (not attached-too large) pdf with me today. Allowing blue pigment into our standard has obviously been very controversial and this new information is IMPORTANT for folks to know about. Some people have gone as far as to run ads in other publications in favor of allowing blue pigment. Hopefully the "other side" will also be heard on this issue and all the facts will be shared.

I have not been shy about sharing my feelings on allowing blue pigment, I think everyone knows I am against it 150%. We have made great strides in the research for SA and I hope that we don't find ourselves fighting another skin disease with CDA in the blue pigment dogs.

Blue pigment is currently a disqualification in our breed and it should remain that way. Breeders that breed away from our standard ON PURPOSE should be reprimanded. I don't care who you are or how long you have been in the breed. Its the rule we have all agreed to follow by signing the code of ethics. This is the rule we agreed to when we became members of the Havanese Club of America. No one is above the rules.

I understand that some people want pedigree info, owner info, dog info on Sarah. Do I know the owner of Sarah? Nope. Don't know the dog either. I also don't know any dogs in the rogue "blue study" or their owners either. Doesn't matter. It's against the rules to breed them, any way you look at it. And changing the standard to fit the breeders is just wrong. Call me crazy.

Permission to cross post any where you like. It's just my opinion along with some facts.

Since 1994 - breeding to the Standard~
 

·
Kimberly
Joined
·
10,275 Posts
I have no idea who this Sarah is or what prompted you to post this, but I've always made it known that I am breeding for black pigment and will continue to do so. Yes, I have a gorgeous chocolate male available for stud (selectively), but I have no interest in breeding for brown pigment, blue pigment nor pink or purple either.
 

·
Janet Hicks
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I have no idea who this Sarah is or what prompted you to post this, but I've always made it known that I am breeding for black pigment and will continue to do so. Yes, I have a gorgeous chocolate male available for stud (selectively), but I have no interest in breeding for brown pigment, blue pigment nor pink or purple either.
There are no health problems (that science is aware of) with brown pigment (bb) but the dilute of blue pigment (dd) DOES have the disease Color Dilute Alopecia associated with it in several breeds. "Sarah" was tested and confirmed to have this disease.

As some of you know, there are some breeders in the HCA that want to change the standard to allow blue pigment. I posted this to the Yahoo groups but wanted the forum to be informed on the status also.

Thanks Kimberly
J
 

·
My Dogs Mom
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
Thank you for posting this. As a pet owner I do like to know what is happening in the Havanese world.
 

·
Tucker 2007-2020
Joined
·
6,275 Posts
Yes, thank you. As a pet owner who plans on adding another Hav in the coming years, I want to be up on health issues in our lovely breed, too.
 

·
and Murphy & Gracie too!
Joined
·
6,989 Posts
I'm happy you posted this too as I love learning more about the breed. When people ask questions I like being able to give them an answer and the more I learn the better! I still get people who look at my dogs and say, "Hava-what?"

The more I see dogs that shouldn't have ever been bred the more I'm interested in things like this.

Thanks for posting.
 

·
Mom to Ricky and Sammy
Joined
·
10,319 Posts
Thank you for the update, Janet! :)
 

·
Quincy's Mom-Vinnie too!
Joined
·
9,923 Posts
This is really interesting--I am glad you shared the information Janet. I remember there being some talk about the blue pigment on this forum quite a while back. It was an intriguing color and people found it rather interesting/and exciting.

It is nice to know this kind of info even as a pet owner because we all want a healthy havanese. I for one would run from anyone promoting this color since I have your information.

Thank you.:thumb:
 

·
Janet Hicks
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Glad some of you found it informative.

I'm still surprised that more people aren't upset that breeders (HCA members) are promoting this color and breeding them on purpose when its against our current standard. Its a disqualification!! The push is to change the standard to allow blue pigment.
 

·
My Dogs Mom
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
Don't we need to keep in mind that there is a difference between bluish coat and actual blue pigment? As I see it, we already have havs with bluish coats and that is ok, but blue pigment is another story?? I would not like to see blue pigment and lighter (blue???) eyes in the havs. JMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,155 Posts
Janet,

What is the driving force behind these breeders wanting the blue pigment added to the standard? Is it to charge extra for a 'rare' hav? Or whats the deal?

Ryan
 

·
Kimberly
Joined
·
10,275 Posts
Ryan, unless they have openly stated their reasons why, it is probably best to ask them. For anyone else to speculate, it just starts rumors that may or may not have any bearing on the truth.

Janet, thanks for answering. I'm going to contact you off the forum to see if I can get that file from you. I'd love to read it. I'm a working vacation all week and have some free time to catch up on this one (after my riding, of course - ha!).
 

·
Kimberly
Joined
·
10,275 Posts
Carole, I meant to respond to your post as well. Yes, blue coats are very different from blue pigment. Just like in the chocolates, a brown coat does not make a chocolate dog - it's the pigment that makes them chocolate; however, a brown coat on a chocolate dog looks great, IMO.

A blue dog means it has blue pigment (not black, brown, grey or pink).
 

·
Janet Hicks
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yes we are talking about blue pigment on the nose vs black. Our breed allows for any coat color as long as the nose is black, with the exception of chocolate coat dogs as they have brown pigment.
 

·
Janet Hicks
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Janet,

What is the driving force behind these breeders wanting the blue pigment added to the standard? Is it to charge extra for a 'rare' hav? Or whats the deal?

Ryan
I do not know why they want blue. I've heard them say things like "its in the breed so we should allow it" but there are lots of things we produce in litters and we can't just change the standard to fit our breedings. Shorthairs are also in the breed but no one is pushing to allow another coat type! Its never been allowed in our breed, going back as far as the original FCI standard from 1963.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,155 Posts
Ohhh.. I got ya. So it could be as simple as many breeders have the 'blue' in their lines and they want to be able to use all these offspring for show potential havs?

Or whatever reason.

Ryan
 

·
Quincy's Mom-Vinnie too!
Joined
·
9,923 Posts
hmmmmm......interesting.

I suppose there are views on both sides.
 

·
Quincy's Mom-Vinnie too!
Joined
·
9,923 Posts
Glad some of you found it informative.

I'm still surprised that more people aren't upset that breeders (HCA members) are promoting this color and breeding them on purpose when its against our current standard. Its a disqualification!! The push is to change the standard to allow blue pigment.
I would guess here anyway,on the forum people would not know about this because they are mostly pet owners?
 

·
Cooper,Emma,Lily,Winston
Joined
·
2,018 Posts
Thanks for information Janet. Do you happen to have a picture of a dog with blue pigment? Is it obvious when a dog has it or do you need to see the blue next to a black dog for a comparison if it's something you're not familiar with?

I too would be interested in the PDF if you could email it to me.

Beverly
 

·
Janet Hicks
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for information Janet. Do you happen to have a picture of a dog with blue pigment? Is it obvious when a dog has it or do you need to see the blue next to a black dog for a comparison if it's something you're not familiar with?

I too would be interested in the PDF if you could email it to me.

Beverly
I think the majority of blue dogs pigment looks black until they are next to a true black and then its just off black, dusky. It can also be very obvious if its a lighter blue but this is a gray blue not really BLUE blue. :confused:

I will try to find some pictures!
 
1 - 20 of 145 Posts
Top