[krandall]

A pup has become available that is chocolate color. Both Sire and Dam are AKC registered Havanese.

My question for the knowledgeable people here is this, I have attached a picture of the "mom", do you think the nose and eye pigmentation is conforming? I know chocolate colored Havs often have brown colored noses.

Honestly it does really matter because we don't plan on breading or showing, but I'm really just curious.

View attachment 180064

Her pigment is on the light side, but would probably pass. It needs to be brown, both completely around her eye rims and on her nose and lips. Her nose looks a bit light, but her eye rims look even lighter, although that COULD be the photo… I’ve seen a pho of a dog here on the forum that I KNOW has black pigment, and in the photo, he looked like he had chocolate pigment!!! That said, in a pet puppy, it makes absolutely no difference AT ALL. There is no health implications for lthis lighter pigment at all.

I would be much more concerned about whether the parents were fully health tested with wonderful temperaments, and whether the puppies were being raised in an enriched environment, and being appropriately socialized, potty trained and prepared for life the way I want them to be than I would be about pigment if I was buying a pet puppy.

 

[krandall]

I agree with Karen 100%. Sydney is so much easier and delightful coming from a breeder that raised her right in her first weeks of life. My last havvies both came from questionable starts. They were great dogs for us. But to be honest they did have issues.
BUT, I might break my one dog (this time around) rule if the puppy looked like that. I love chocolates and I love the light nose and eyes! So expressive. If you are thinking of showing I’ve heard through the grapevine that it’s harder to champion a chocolate Hav. Not sure why. Maybe Karen Randall can explain.

“Only” because you have to ALSO, on top of having to produce a dog with a good temperament, good structure and a good coat, a good mouth and full pigment which is already not easy, you have to ALSO produce one that has DARK brown pigment (many chocolates have too-light pigment) and dark ENOUGH eyes. (Many chocolates have gold or greenish eyes. Pigment or eyes that is not dark enough brown would be a serious fault, depending on the degree, green or gold eyes would be a DQ. Because pigment often fades, you can have a puppy who looks outstanding at 8 weeks, and by 6 months, when it is old enough for the show ring, its pigment may have faded enough that it cannot be shown… and you have put a lot of time and effort into the puppy, as well as the pup not having that time to bond with his forever home.

There are a few lines that pretty reliably produce REALLY dark pigment and eye color. Ducky’s grandmother came from such lines. Unfortunately, she, herself, did not produce any chocolates. But her descendants have occasionally turned up some remarkable chocolates. ZT’s line also has produced some dark, show worthy chocolates. I would prefers NOT to get chocolates… it’s an added complication in my life, but if I do (and there is a 25% chance…) I am hoping that they end up looking like their stunning great grandma! But there are vanishingly few chocolates of this quality. She was almost black at birth, she was so dark.

Worst comes to worst, they will be lovely pet or performance puppies if they do not check ALL the boxes to make it as show puppies too.

 

[krandall]

I passed on the chocolate pup because I really want a breeder that goes the extra mile for their dogs to make sure they get the best possible start in life. Looks like I may be flying out to California to pick up a pup. Hopefully travelling with a 4.5 m.o pup under the seat in front of me on the airplane will be OK. It's only a 2 hour flight. Just hope the engine noise and kerfuffling at the airport won't stress the poor guy too much. The other option is a 12 hour drive each way.
In case you are wondering, she was planning on showing those dogs but unfortunately her health issues have made that impossible. She has a long history breading and showing Havs and "mom and dad" are gorgeous!
I guess my only concern in those pups haven't been out much because she is house bound. But they have been interacting with her other dogs. I guess there is never a 100% guarantee that you won't have behavioral or health issues.
She is an AKC breeder of merit. What is the significance of that?

Here is what is required fir Breeder of Merit:

The following must be met in order to be accepted into the program:

• Has a history of at least 5 years involvement with AKC events.
• Earned AKC Conformation, Performance or Companion* event titles on a minimum of 4 dogs from AKC litters they bred/co-bred in each breed applied for.
• Member of an AKC club.
• Certifies that applicable health screens are performed on your breeding stock as recommended by the Parent Club.
  Health test requirements can be found on the Breed Health Testing Requirements webpages.
• Demonstrates a commitment to ensuring 100% of the puppies produced are individually AKC registered.

It certainly means something. But a breeder can Breeder of Merit and not raise puppies in a way that I would find acceptable in a puppy I was buying, in terms of enrichment and preparing those puppies for life in their forever home. Conversely, a breeder can be doing “all the right things” and producing wonderful puppies and not have been breeding long enough to have enough dogs competing to meet the requirements for Breeder of Merit. That takes time!

Pam and Tom King (Starborn Havanese) here on the forum, are both. They raise their puppies beautifully, and are ALSO Breeders of Merit. I hope to be some day, but with a litter every couple of years, it could take a long time! LOL!

 

[krandall]

The person must not have been a breeder of merit because they were using my dogs picture.

Glad to hear from you. It is so frustrating when these scammers use photos from real breeders!

 

[krandall]

Wow. I guess I dodged a bullet by not engaging that scammer. We ended up with 3 beautiful Havanese from reputable breeders, one from California, and the other two from breeders in the Phoenix area where we live. It really pays to do your homework when you're looking for a dog. All these breeders had extensive websites and a long history of raising and showing Havs.

There are many excellent Havanese breeders out there, but you DO need to be careful, and do your homework!