[Jackie from Concrete WA]

I've been following your posts but haven't had anything to contribute. But I'm so glad you have found a good vet to deal with your problem. I pray that your furbaby responds well to the treatment. She is so cute and it's so hard on us when they have problems. Please keep posting her progress.

 

[PrincessLexi]

Amen to what Tom said. Medications and vaccines are the last to blame for anything if they are even blamed at all. My Mia had neurological issues from a rabies vaccine. I stopped all vaccines and all flea and heartworm drugs. She was fine after about a year. She will be 14 in two months and healthy. I belong to a group where people never vaccinate their dogs at all due to the things they have personally experienced...and not just with over vaccination.

I would like to not vaccinate but vets wont see the my Hav if not vaccinated. How do you get around that if you need to take your pup to a vet. Or board? I have been doing Titer tests so not to vaccinate. Any info appreciated since I'm kind of a new dog mom.

 

[Melissa Brill]

I would like to not vaccinate but vets wont see the my Hav if not vaccinated. How do you get around that if you need to take your pup to a vet. Or board? I have been doing Titer tests so not to vaccinate. Any info appreciated since I'm kind of a new dog mom.

When you say you don't want to vaccinate - what do you mean - do you mean at all? There's a huge difference between minimal vaccination protocols and not vaccinating at all. If you're doing titers that means you did vaccinate already?

 

[PrincessLexi]

When you say you don't want to vaccinate - what do you mean - do you mean at all? There's a huge difference between minimal vaccination protocols and not vaccinating at all. If you're doing titers that means you did vaccinate already?

Yes, my pup is 18 months and had all vacs/shots and rabies. Its the rabie shot makes me nervous.

 

[Melissa Brill]

Yes, my pup is 18 months and had all vacs/shots and rabies. Its the rabie shot makes me nervous.

The answer to that is going to vary depending on your state - but generally I think it's difficult (almost impossible) to not do at least the 3 year rabies vaccine unless you have a strong medical reason not to (like Karen has for Kodi) - but that justification would need to come from your vet AND the state would have to accept it.

 

[mudpuppymama]

I would like to not vaccinate but vets wont see the my Hav if not vaccinated. How do you get around that if you need to take your pup to a vet. Or board? I have been doing Titer tests so not to vaccinate. Any info appreciated since I'm kind of a new dog mom.

I have been fortunate to find vets who are understanding about my Mia having vaccine reactions and respect my decision to not vaccinate her further, even for rabies. Note that Mia has been vaccinated (actually over vaccinated) and I have done titers to prove that immunity. If you are talking about not vaccinating at all, I am not personally experienced with that and that could be more difficult. However, I know people who do not vaccinate at all and somehow get veterinary care. One woman told her vet she is simply not vaccinating her dog and asked him if he was okay with it or else she would just go elsewhere.

You may have to search around for an open minded vet. Holistic or integrative vets are more likely aware of vaccine issues, however many regular vets are fine with it too. A mobile vet may be more understanding too. It helps to establish a good relationship with a vet so they know your dog and that your dog won’t bite them and they are aware of your dog’s lifestyle and are supportive of how you want to raise your dog. If you are doing titers, the vet should know your dog has immunity and not be pushing vaccines, even for rabies. The rabies laws make no sense.

Boarding and grooming may be more problematic. They have their rules and there is not much you can do about that unless they accept titers. You could check into getting a dog sitter or use a mobile groomer who may be less strict about vaccine rules.

Vaccines are intended for healthy dogs only and should definitely not be given to dogs who have had previous reactions. For a dog with a known medical condition, the vet should not be vaccinating them although it happens all the time. If they do, I would move on to a different vet. The problem with vaccine “reactions” is that often times a dog has an issue and there is no way to prove that the vaccine caused it. A dog like Josie with neurological problems should not received any vaccines IMO whether or not it was caused by vaccines.

Remember that you are in control of your animal’s health and that the vet is working for you. You may have to shop around for a vet who agrees with how you want to raise your dog. It may not be easy, but worth the effort. Good luck.

 

[krandall]

I would like to not vaccinate but vets wont see the my Hav if not vaccinated. How do you get around that if you need to take your pup to a vet. Or board? I have been doing Titer tests so not to vaccinate. Any info appreciated since I'm kind of a new dog mom.

The only vaccine that vets MUST insist on for their license is Rabies. Everything else is up to the owner. And the "core" vaccines... the "important" one to protect her from are Parvo and Distemper. It is VERY likely that she is already fully protected for those by the vaccines she has already received, and you can titer for these instead. Rabies is only an every 3 year shot, and in SOME places, a dog can be exempted if they have an illness that the vaccine would make worse. I am not at all sure this qualifies, but you might want to check into it.

 

[JaJa]

Just my 2 cents worth here. Before I had the knowledge I do now, our old vet made us purchase the higher level of Bravecto. The average weight of a Havanese puts them on the border. I refused to give them that much. Several years ago, Cotton had some fleas after a freind watched him, without telling me their house was infested. I cut it in half, cut it again and gave him about 1/4.
Two hours later I found 4 fleas on him that were dead. I used my magnified head band and they were definitely dead, dead, dead! Not even a micro-movement. We don't live around ticks so maybe that's why it was so concentrated. That was the only link I could ever make back when JoJo suddenly developed seizures so young. Needless to say, that stuff will never touch their lips again.
I had Titer testing on Cotton and JoJo. JoJo's gone of course, but Cotton is still covered. I will also be having it done on Jodie next year.

P.S. For anyone new reading this, My avatar is a portrait from Dee Dee (above). An incredibly talented artist-obviously!

 

[krandall]

Just my 2 cents worth here. Before I had the knowledge I do now, our old vet made us purchase the higher level of Bravecto. The average weight of a Havanese puts them on the border. I refused to give them that much. Several years ago, Cotton had some fleas after a freind watched him, without telling me their house was infested. I cut it in half, cut it again and gave him about 1/4.
Two hours later I found 4 fleas on him that were dead. I used my magnified head band and they were definitely dead, dead, dead! Not even a micro-movement. We don't live around ticks so maybe that's why it was so concentrated. That was the only link I could ever make back when JoJo suddenly developed seizures so young. Needless to say, that stuff will never touch their lips again.
I had Titer testing on Cotton and JoJo. JoJo's gone of course, but Cotton is still covered. I will also be having it done on Jodie next year.

P.S. For anyone new reading this, My avatar is a portrait from Dee Dee (above). An incredibly talented artist-obviously!

While it is the topical, not a feed-through, (which I would NEVER use) I have used Advantix II for my dogs for many years. When I went to put it on my dogs this spring, Duck had reached 11 led. I waffled on what do. The one time I'd used it on him last year, he was well under 10 lbs, and had tolerated that dose fine. Pixel has always been on that "small dog dose sine she weighs just under 10 lbs. I use the "Medium dog" size on Panda (12 1/2 lbs) and Kodi (17 lbs) and neither of them have ever had a problem, and the medium dog range is 11-25 lbs.

But even when I went to dose him, I waffled, with him RIGHT at 11 lbs. I used it, and he was"off his feed", not cleaning up his meals and vomitted off and on for 3 days. Not terribly sick, but clearly not himself. I talked to his vet about it, and she agreed with me that from how on, I should go back to the Small dog dose for him. He is clearly too close to the size cut-off, and since the lower dose doesn't bother him, unless there is clear evidence that it is not keeping ticks off him, we should stick to that. She thinks it will be fine, especially since there is a fair amount of "wiggle room" in their dosing.

Because of the connection between Bartonella and Hemangiosarcoma, I just DON'T dare not to protect my dogs against ticks in our area. I can treat them for Lyme and most other TBD's. Hemangiosarcoma is ALWAYS a killer.

 

[PrincessLexi]

I have been fortunate to find vets who are understanding about my Mia having vaccine reactions and respect my decision to not vaccinate her further, even for rabies. Note that Mia has been vaccinated (actually over vaccinated) and I have done titers to prove that immunity. If you are talking about not vaccinating at all, I am not personally experienced with that and that could be more difficult. However, I know people who do not vaccinate at all and somehow get veterinary care. One woman told her vet she is simply not vaccinating her dog and asked him if he was okay with it or else she would just go elsewhere.

You may have to search around for an open minded vet. Holistic or integrative vets are more likely aware of vaccine issues, however many regular vets are fine with it too. A mobile vet may be more understanding too. It helps to establish a good relationship with a vet so they know your dog and that your dog won’t bite them and they are aware of your dog’s lifestyle and are supportive of how you want to raise your dog. If you are doing titers, the vet should know your dog has immunity and not be pushing vaccines, even for rabies. The rabies laws make no sense.

Boarding and grooming may be more problematic. They have their rules and there is not much you can do about that unless they accept titers. You could check into getting a dog sitter or use a mobile groomer who may be less strict about vaccine rules.

Vaccines are intended for healthy dogs only and should definitely not be given to dogs who have had previous reactions. For a dog with a known medical condition, the vet should not be vaccinating them although it happens all the time. If they do, I would move on to a different vet. The problem with vaccine “reactions” is that often times a dog has an issue and there is no way to prove that the vaccine caused it. A dog like Josie with neurological problems should not received any vaccines IMO whether or not it was caused by vaccines.

Remember that you are in control of your animal’s health and that the vet is working for you. You may have to shop around for a vet who agrees with how you want to raise your dog. It may not be easy, but worth the effort. Good luck.

Thank you!! Great info. I really appreciate that info. I definitely want my fur baby protected but like myself not going to vaccinate because someone saying I should. Her very recent titers show she is good for Parvo and distemper. Rabies good for 3 years. She just acted not herself after the last rabies.
TX again for your help!!

 

[ER100]

When my little Maltese developed neurological problems his MRI showed encephalitis and the spinal tap established that it was most likely immune based. Once that was diagnosed Sherlock's neurologist was the first to stand up and say that he should never have another vaccination. So some vets will acknowledge when it may be too dangerous to vaccinate.

I am starting my Havanese Pup with a new General Veterinarian and will be asking that we go conservative on vaccinations and just do what is absolutely necessary but not every vaccination under the sun. I think I will also ask that for future boosters we do titer testing first.

 

[Melissa Brill]

While it is the topical, not a feed-through, (which I would NEVER use) I have used Advantix II for my dogs for many years. When I went to put it on my dogs this spring, Duck had reached 11 led. I waffled on what do. The one time I'd used it on him last year, he was well under 10 lbs, and had tolerated that dose fine. Pixel has always been on that "small dog dose sine she weighs just under 10 lbs. I use the "Medium dog" size on Panda (12 1/2 lbs) and Kodi (17 lbs) and neither of them have ever had a problem, and the medium dog range is 11-25 lbs.

But even when I went to dose him, I waffled, with him RIGHT at 11 lbs. I used it, and he was"off his feed", not cleaning up his meals and vomitted off and on for 3 days. Not terribly sick, but clearly not himself. I talked to his vet about it, and she agreed with me that from how on, I should go back to the Small dog dose for him. He is clearly too close to the size cut-off, and since the lower dose doesn't bother him, unless there is clear evidence that it is not keeping ticks off him, we should stick to that. She thinks it will be fine, especially since there is a fair amount of "wiggle room" in their dosing.

Because of the connection between Bartonella and Hemangiosarcoma, I just DON'T dare not to protect my dogs against ticks in our area. I can treat them for Lyme and most other TBD's. Hemangiosarcoma is ALWAYS a killer.

Even though Perry is 11 pounds I've always kept him on the small dog dose of advantix and he's done fine on it. I didn't feel it would be justified in our case to double the dose for 1 pounds weight difference.

Re: cutting pills for meds to reduce the dose, be careful. I asked the vet about this for Perry's heartgard and she said that you shouldn't because the dose was not evenly distributed in the chew so you couldn't be sure you were getting 1/2 a dose if you give them half a chew.

Re: bravecto, they have finally admitted that it can cause neurological issues including seizures and death in some dogs, and others are perfectly fine. My sister uses it for her dogs because one was showing allergic reactions to the topicals. The problem is that there isn't a test to see if your dog will have a reaction to bravecto or not and by the time you realise it, it could be too late so I avoid the chewable like bravecto and nextgard.

 

[krandall]

Even though Perry is 11 pounds I've always kept him on the small dog dose of advantix and he's done fine on it. I didn't feel it would be justified in our case to double the dose for 1 pounds weight difference.

That’s what we’ve decided for Ducky!!! He’s staying on the small dog dose!!!

 

[JaJa]

When my little Maltese developed neurological problems his MRI showed encephalitis and the spinal tap established that it was most likely immune based. Once that was diagnosed Sherlock's neurologist was the first to stand up and say that he should never have another vaccination. So some vets will acknowledge when it may be too dangerous to vaccinate.

I am starting my Havanese Pup with a new General Veterinarian and will be asking that we go conservative on vaccinations and just do what is absolutely necessary but not every vaccination under the sun. I think I will also ask that for future boosters we do titer testing first.

That's exactly what I've done. Jodie (3 1/2) had her titer 6 months ago and it was perfect/negative. Lacie had her DAP last week and will have her rabies in 2 1/2 weeks. Next spring she'll have her titers. Our vet is only one of a few in this area that will do titers. Our vet is happy that we want to do that instead of endless vaccines.
How old is Watson? Sherlock then Watson, I like that😋 Although I am so sorry that you had to say goodbye to Sherlock. We lost our oldest last year and it was a very difficult time. Lacie is 3 1/2 months so she and Watson are the same age. Our middle child, Jodie, is 14 pounds even though Cotton and our first boy was/is only 10 pounds. I expect Lacie to be closer to Jodie's size. Jodie's Dad was 20 pounds. Small dogs are easier in some ways since I'm 63 but I wouldn't trade Lacie's personality for anything, she's perfect🥰
Also, how are you doing with Watson's car sickness? I was thinking about Watson when Lacie got sick 2 weeks ago driving to our in laws. She was fine coming home though.
Welcome to the forum Watson!

 

[krandall]

Just one little thing… you do NOT want titers to be “negative”. (I’m sure Jodie’s wasn’t) In the case of titers, you want a good solid POSITIVE response, shoeing that the dog still has immunity to whatever disease she is vaccinated for!

 

[mudpuppymama]

That's exactly what I've done. Jodie (3 1/2) had her titer 6 months ago and it was perfect/negative. Lacie had her DAP last week and will have her rabies in 2 1/2 weeks. Next spring she'll have her titers. Our vet is only one of a few in this area that will do titers. Our vet is happy that we want to do that instead of endless vaccines.
How old is Watson? Sherlock then Watson, I like that😋 Although I am so sorry that you had to say goodbye to Sherlock. We lost our oldest last year and it was a very difficult time. Lacie is 3 1/2 months so she and Watson are the same age. Our middle child, Jodie, is 14 pounds even though Cotton and our first boy was/is only 10 pounds. I expect Lacie to be closer to Jodie's size. Jodie's Dad was 20 pounds. Small dogs are easier in some ways since I'm 63 but I wouldn't trade Lacie's personality for anything, she's perfect🥰
Also, how are you doing with Watson's car sickness? I was thinking about Watson when Lacie got sick 2 weeks ago driving to our in laws. She was fine coming home though.
Welcome to the forum Watson!

I thought it was best to wait until 5 or 6 months for rabies vax.

 

[JaJa]

Just one little thing… you do NOT want titers to be “negative”. (I’m sure Jodie’s wasn’t) In the case of titers, you want a good solid POSITIVE response, shoeing that the dog still has immunity to whatever disease she is vaccinated for!

That's what I get for staying up so late😆 Yes, all of Jodie's Titers were definitely positive!