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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Breeders. The Havanese Club of America recommends you look for a breeder who does the following tests: CERF, OFA, CHIC. Do all breeders do these tests? And if not, why wouldn't a breeder do a particular test? In addition, what are the significance of these tests? Thank you. I deeply value your expertise.
 

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Casper and Missy
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Rita, I don't know much on this for sure, but I tell you what I think I know and then maybe somebody else can jump in here. Not all breeders do these test, and I think some say they do and don't. I think why they might not do the test is maybe the expense of the tests. In my research the more test done the higher price of the dog. The significance of the tests done on the puppy and past family members is to see if the have or had any health problems, if the health problems run in their family line.
 

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Mom to Princess & Jewels
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Rita, I am almost positive I read somewhere that you don't have to do the OFA test, because the results aren't accurate. I'm not sure though, I'll have to try and see where I found that info at.

I think that's like some say soap the dogs, others say it's not worth a thing. I personally would OFA, but that's because I'm used to golden's who have to have it.
 

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Jodi:
You read that from someone who does not do testing because of their own reasons, probably financial. Responsible breeders test! I've learned that from this forum:) And just because they say they test, doesn't mean they do! Get proof. Ask questions, ask for the CERF and OFA numbers so you can look it up yourself. We should all be from Missouri on this one! (the show-me State)
 

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Mom to Princess & Jewels
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I know, but I would have sworn I read it here. I'll have to check when I have more time.
 

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Mom to Princess & Jewels
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Ok, found it.

Sorry, it's wasn't specifically OFA, it was just about getting hips tested.

I *knew* I read it here though! LOL Here's the quote.

For a pet I wouldn't worry about hips. Havanese hips are very flexible and unless you have someone who has done xrays on Havs enough to know how to hold them you can get anywhere from a Good to a Fail on the same dog.

For breeding dogs I would also get an SA320 full blood panel with Pre and Post bile acids and a Cardiac test.
 

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Mom to Princess & Jewels
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Ok, thanks for clarifying. I was wondering about that
 

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health testing

HCA recommends CERF(annually) OFA HIPS, Patellas and Baer. CHIC is a certificate that is given by CHIC once the recommened health testing has been completed. There is one more award given annually by HCA called a 4 star award. This is give to all HCA member dogs that have completed and PASSED all required health testing. CHIC says it has been done - pass or fail - the 4 star says the testing is done and all required tests are passing. Some breeders do more than the recommended testing - they do CARDIAC, Thyroid, LCP, Elbows, liver function and bile acids. The more testing you do the better. Nothing is for sure no matter how much health testing is done -stuff still comes up - but the best shot you have with a really healthy puppy is one where the parents have been extensively tested. By not doing it you are burying your head in the sand. There is no line that DOESN't have health problems - only breeders that don't test under the guise of "my line doesn't have any of that" - my question is If Your line doesn't have any thing - then why not test and prove it?.
Testing may not be the best that there is but it is the best that we have at the current time.
Joan Little
JoLain Havanese
www.jolainhavanese.com
Fully health tested and all AKC Champions
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you Joan. I was waiting for you to tune in. I believe in testing. I just was fishing to see what "GOOD" breeders would say. I think Melissa set this area up for the purpose of us listing questions and having "GOOD" breeders give us the facts. Hopefully people look at this before purchasing puppies.

I think having this for other people to see from a breeder like yourself will set the record straight. Thanks again.:)
 

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There has been talk of making SA320 full blood panel with pre and post bile acids a required test for a while but there has been a lot of resistance to it. Puppies have been bred with liver shunts and the dam was later tested and found to have a high "post" bile acid level. The test costs about seventy-five dollars and any vet can pull the blood but yet just a year ago there were very few breeders who did it. Like Joan says there are still a lot of breeders who claim no problems so claim that they do not need to do the tests.

Other puppies have been born with problems and THEN the dam was tested and found to be low thyroid. So do we not test for thyroid too. A problem there is easily medicated.

Another small breeder I know who only had a couple of litters with one bitch had her bitch cardiac tested and was found to have the kind of heart murmur that is hereditary. She had her spayed but is terribly worried about the puppies that have been produced. This nice lady is not to be considered a bad breeder. Most of us had never heard of a cardiac test before the last National where they had it on site.

We do as much testing as we hear of. The testing is not a sure bet in itself, but it surely must increase the favorable odds. Of equal or greater importance, in my opinion, is to have a "Health Pedigree". In other words know the health history of a line for several generations.
If you breed the one dog in a litter who passes the health testing the odds of producing healthy puppies are..........NOT TOO GOOD.

So far any of our five generations which go back to our foundation bitch Twinkle on the tail female line (which is all of ours) have not had any problems but we still do all the testing and worry.

Pam knows a lot more about all the testing than I do, so details of what I say about them might not be 100% accurate, but she's too busy with other Havanese stuff to post on this forum.
 

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Can someone please let me know at what age these tests should be done?
The closest place to me that does some of these tests in the University of TN. When will the next specialties be held?
 
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BAER - Most breeders test puppies prior to placing them.
CERF - Any age, repeat annually.
Patella - for OFA at 1 yr. Periodically re-examine.
Hips - For OFA at 2 yrs. Prelims can be done prior to 2, as young as 4 mos.
Elbows - Same as hips.
LCP - for OFA 12 mos. or older. If you pass hips, you pass LCP. You just need to complete the appropriate form and mail-in.
SA320 - Any age.
Cardiac - For OFA after 12 mos. Re-exam annually.
Thyroid - For OFA after 12 mos. Re-exam annually.

I THINK I have all that correct...but check the OFA and CERF sites to verify.

OFA: www.offa.org
CERF: http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html
 
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Regarding the Elbows...I'm not sure if they are doing prelims as early as 4 mos. I don't think they will post prelim hips/elbows prior to 12 mos.
 

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Yoda
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How would be the best way to fine a good vet that would check for these type of test? IS there any thing I should look for? Since Yoda is almost 1 and I would like to have him tested any ideas? Susan
 

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Mom to Princess & Jewels
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Susan, you might want to check at local shows. I know there is one coming up here that is going to offer a lot of the tests.
 

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Health testing

Most of the testing is required to be done by Board Certified vets. CERF is for sure. Cardiac might be able to be done by a local vet. Patella can be done by a regular vet - Baer testing will probably have to be done at a show as there are no Baer testing facilities in TEXAS any more. Our closest is LSU.
Regular vets can do the SA230 and Bile acids but they all need to be done through ANTACH for consistence.
OFA hips & elbows is done under anesthetic for the most part - there are a few vets that do it without anesthetic with really great results. Many clinics are held in conjunction with dog shows and those tend to be much cheaper that finding a vet that does it and going to their clinic. You can check with specialty practices - as they are generally all Board Certified in their fields.
 
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