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Discussion Starter #21
Good information once again that I keep hearing over and over and am trying to follow as closely as possible. I always wished it was possible to have the ex-pen open up into the gated off kitchen area, but it is impossible with our layout. He likes the kitchen area and is ok with the ex-pen. But I am not happy with how little he sleeps during the day. I read that they need 18-20 hours a day & Frankie gets about 9 at night (in his travel type kennel in our bedroom which he likes at night) and VERY few brief cat naps during the day. So today and yesterday I put him in his blanket covered wire crate in the kitchen area and closed the door (which is usually open). He whimpered, cried, sometimes howled for over an hour even though he has been ok (but not great) in this kennel in the past. I let him out 3 times and took him to his litter box, just in case that was the issue, and put him back in the crate. He never did sleep and I finally let him out as soon as he was quiet for a few minutes. I did try to make the crate welcoming since I have had him with treats, toys, door open, etc. Also, with the crying I tried staying in the room and ignoring, leaving the room, lights on, lights off (it is dark here in the afternoon right now).
Any ideas?
 

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Metrowest, MA
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At 13 weeks, he is still very young, and part of the problem may be that he is getting really wound up which is contributing to him NOT sleeping during the day. And again, with no real “routine”, he doesn’t want to “miss anything”. Back to YOU needing to be the one to enforce the structure on his time. For your benefit as well as his. He doesn’t have to sleep, he FORS have to stay in his pen or crate and “settle” at certain times for a certain AMOUNT of time each day. Try to make it AFTER he has had some good exercise, and then some quiet cuddle/stroking time (if he has such a thing) and then gently but firmly pop him in his pen. Giving him something to chew on at this point can be a big help to help him settle too. Then just walk away. Cover his crate if that helps. Otherwise simply ignore. Be consistent. The same time, same routine every day. Dogs, and especially puppies, THRIVE on routine! If you do it for two weeks and you are STILL getting nowhere, then you start tweaking things. But I really think you are changing to much. You are letting him call the shots, with the BEST of intentions, and all it’s doing is confusing him.
 
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The room needs to be puppy proof meaning there should be no hidden places where he can play.
He's needs to be confined and trained in each room for a long while. Patti was 10 months before I took down gates and gave her freedom to three rooms. It was several more months before she had access to other parts of the house.
This is a great point I often forget. When it was time to start expanding his downstairs space, it was tricky to gate him off because we have a somewhat open floor plan and one of my sofas floats in the room. He peed behind it at least 3 times, not in the same spot, and I kept returning the expen to it's previous placement. Finally I moved the sofa back against the wall for a month or so. I hated how it looked, but it was so temporary, I forget about it now. He could handle a bigger space, he couldn't handle it including the hidden spot behind the sofa! When I moved the sofa back, I started playing with him behind the sofa in the evenings. After that I moved furniture and gates around a couple of times to systematically introduce him to different places. It was always temporary, and completely worth it. I happened to be working on several major remodeling projects during this time, room by room, so I was not only able to introduce him to different parts of my house in a really systematic way, I was really able to see him learning. I felt like I was internalizing/generalizing the training method, not just Sundance!
 

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This is a really good point, and I never thought about it before getting a dog. My sister sometimes has to walk her dog for a LONG time before it will potty. Shama doesn't get to go for the exciting walk until she has pottied in her back yard. That said, she still marks all along our walk (which seems funny to me since she's a girl - maybe one day, I'll try to figure out if that's common for female dogs), and she occasionally poops while we're out and about too. (Always have one or more poop bags with you!)
Patti not only Marks but she often Lifts Her Little Leg to pee on a small patch of tall grass. It is absolutely hysterical!! Recently we started walking a new 3 mile path, with nose down, her little legs walking as fast she can go, Patti is either squating and peeing or lifting her leg about every 50 to 100 feet. She has to be running on empty after the first quarter mile. :grin2:
 

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Metrowest, MA
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Patti not only Marks but she often Lifts Her Little Leg to pee on a small patch of tall grass. It is absolutely hysterical!! Recently we started walking a new 3 mile path, with nose down, her little legs walking as fast she can go, Patti is either squating and peeing or lifting her leg about every 50 to 100 feet. She has to be running on empty after the first quarter mile. :grin2:
People have this idea that boy dogs mark and girl dogs don't and it is TOTALLY false. It tends to be more obvious to the uninitiated when a boy dog marks. MOST girl dogs mark, at least sometimes. Both of my girls mark MUCH more tgan Kodi does. They both have to mark over where the other one has peed, every single time. So they follow each other around the yard until the squeeze out every.single.drop!
 
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People have this idea that boy dogs mark and girl dogs don't and it is TOTALLY false. It tends to be more obvious to the uninitiated when a boy dog marks. MOST girl dogs mark, at least sometimes. Both of my girls mark MUCH more tgan Kodi does. They both have to mark over where the other one has peed, every single time. So they follow each other around the yard until the squeeze out every.single.drop!
That is really funny. LOL!!! I've seen Patti do this occasionally with the Goodle-doodle, pee over Lucy's pee. :grin2:

And, OMGosh!! when Patti went into heat it was really bad. I think she was peeing over her own pee.
 

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BPanzer
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This post is so helpful as I gave some of the same issues with Olive that Frankie seems to have. Including the peeing so often. I think she has quickly learned that the more often she pees in the litter box the more often she gets a celebration. And sometimes she also gets supervised time in the living room (which has carpert that looks way too much like the pellets). So thanks for the info.
I’ve never done the litter box thing before and I’m curius that they just learn to hold it longer as they get older? Olive can hold it all night but she doesn’t have that need to hold it during the day. So this will naturally happen? She pees much more than my prior puppies but she isn’t even 3lbs so her bladder has to be tiny.
Also from this post it seems that you all move the litter boxes around a lot in the beginning. How long until you felt you were able to trust the puppy to go into another room to pee?
One more question I remove the used (powdered pellets) several times a day and the poo immediately. Is this right? And is completely 100% change of the pellets once a week okay (1 dog household)?
Thanks for the feedback.
 

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BPanzer
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This post is so helpful as I gave some of the same issues with Olive that Frankie seems to have. Including the peeing so often. I think she has quickly learned that the more often she pees in the litter box the more often she gets a celebration. And sometimes she also gets supervised time in the living room (which has carpert that looks way too much like the pellets). So thanks for the info.
I’ve never done the litter box thing before and I’m curius that they just learn to hold it longer as they get older? Olive can hold it all night but she doesn’t have that need to hold it during the day. So this will naturally happen? She pees much more than my prior puppies but she isn’t even 3lbs so her bladder has to be tiny.
Also from this post it seems that you all move the litter boxes around a lot in the beginning. How long until you felt you were able to trust the puppy to go into another room to pee?
I remove the used (powdered pellets) several times a day and the poo immediately. Is this right? And is completely 100% change of the pellets once a week okay (1 dog household)?
Last question any way to keep them from trying to eat the pellets? She didn’t do that last week but seems to be starting on a teething thing (11 weeks old tomorrow).
 

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This post is so helpful as I gave some of the same issues with Olive that Frankie seems to have. Including the peeing so often. I think she has quickly learned that the more often she pees in the litter box the more often she gets a celebration. And sometimes she also gets supervised time in the living room (which has carpert that looks way too much like the pellets). So thanks for the info.
I’ve never done the litter box thing before and I’m curius that they just learn to hold it longer as they get older? Olive can hold it all night but she doesn’t have that need to hold it during the day. So this will naturally happen? She pees much more than my prior puppies but she isn’t even 3lbs so her bladder has to be tiny.
Also from this post it seems that you all move the litter boxes around a lot in the beginning. How long until you felt you were able to trust the puppy to go into another room to pee?
I remove the used (powdered pellets) several times a day and the poo immediately. Is this right? And is completely 100% change of the pellets once a week okay (1 dog household)?
Last question any way to keep them from trying to eat the pellets? She didn’t do that last week but seems to be starting on a teething thing (11 weeks old tomorrow).
Because a dog is small does not mean they pee more often. Tiny dogs have tiny bladders. Big dogs have big bladders. If a dog or person is up eating, drinking and moving around during the day all use their dedicated potties more often than when they're sleeping. ;)

You puppy is 3 lbs very young and tiny at 11 weeks. That's GREAT! Olive is using the potty tray.

You don't have to clean out the powdered equine pellets every day. There's no odor so you can leave them in the tray until it needs to be clean. But, of course clean the tray anytime you want. There's no rule when to scoop out the dusty pellets or replace all the pellets.

When Patti was a puppy I changed out the pellets about once a week. I didn't scoop out the dusty pellets because I used a flat tray with a grate on top and it was easier to just change out all the pellets weekly.

Eating the pellets. Puppies like toddlers put everything in their mouth. After Olive has tried gnawing on a pellet I doubt she'll continue but if she does you'll need to get a tray that has a grate on the top. Tom King has lot of Havanese puppies and has said he's never had a problem with the puppies eating the pellets.

Olive is very young and you should put a potty tray close by, in an obvious place where she can see it, in the room she's out running around in for a long while. The room should be Puppy Proof meaning there should be no place she can hide. When she has an accident Clap Your Hands, pick her up and put her on the potty tray with a command to potty: Pee, Do You Job or whatever your command is.

You might consider buying a piece a linoleum and placing it over your carpet until Olive is fully housebroken. It's very difficult to get pee odor out of carpet and dogs like to pee on spots that smell like pee. :confused:

Karen's test for Trustworthiness is 3-months. When Olive has not had an accident for three months you can trust her in the room where she has been trained to find her indoor potty.

Olive should be confined and not allowed the freedom to run around the house. When you don't have Eyes on her she should be confined to her ex-pen.
 
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