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P:( LEASE TELL ME THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL... We have a just turned 9 month old male who is still not house trained. He will be outside for two hours playing with the kids... or on a two mile walk... and come inside and poop on the floor... he crates at night and has no accidents... he has had his bladder tested just in case for a kidney infection... but there is no rhyme or reason to this... He will lift his leg on the wall... or squat... help!
 

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Goldie and Stogie
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Im guessing you have not had him fixed? Are you planning to?
It sounds like he may be marking. Do you have other dogs?

Getting them to poop outside is the hardest. I have finally blocked off every room they can "escape" to. I had to pull up all my rugs, and block off all rooms I cant see. When Im gone, they are kept in our kitchen with wood floors and never have accidents.

When Im here, its amazing how fast they can sneak off and poop and come back. My boy seems harder to train than my girl was.

Tom is right, it boils down to supervision. And sometimes I have to go out in the grass and just wait and wait for them to go. Then make a HUGE deal about it. We will see. The best thing is to catch them in the act when they go in the house, so you can tell them no.
 

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When I'm potty training a dog it's either in an expen or on a leash outside.

When in an expen I start when the pup first wakes up. I go over and stand next to the litter box (or whatever other method-paper or piddle pads) and say "go potty". This is the important part--NO baby talk. No reinforcement of any kind-not even eye contact. The trainer is allowed to relax and breathe and that's it. The pup of course wants attention and to play but it gets no reinforcement UNTIL exactly after it finishes pottying. Then pick up and "make much" over the puppy and let it out to run and play. When expen training, if after minute or so if nothing happens, I go and sit down in my chair, which is 2 steps away from the pen, and completely ignore the puppy. If the pup goes into the box, I go back to the same position by the box before the pup starts to do anything and say "go potty". As in training any animal, timing is everything.

When training to go outside, the pup is still in an expen, but at the appropriate times it is taken outside. It the same sort of thing. No reinforcement until after the pottying. I stand there and say "go potty". No walking all over the place and sniffing everything until after going potty. No tug of war on the leash allowed-EVER. This might take longer outside because it's too much trouble and the timing might not be right to go back in the house. The first time it might take 20 seconds or it might take all day. It doesn't matter. The important part is the timing of the praise after they go potty. Until then their world stops turning and waits. These dogs are very smart so they will learn the drill quickly WITH PROPER TIMNG OF THE PRAISE.

I can have an eleven week old puppy squatting and trying to pee in the box even if they don't have to do anything just so they can get attention and come out to play. I say eleven week old because that's usually the age that we only have one. I'm sure it would work with an 8 week old too but it doesn't work as good when you have more than one at the time.

This is potty training. Only after potty training can we move on to housetraining. We have Heart Pine floors and Persian rugs. We have twelve dogs that live in and out of the house including 3 intact males. Something over a hundred puppies have come out of here. The rugs have never been pottied on.

The potty training can be messed up though. Pam will occasionally spend a LOT of time with a puppy owner on the phone and email correcting problems. The problem is always too much freedom and the owner assuming that potty trained means housetrained.
 

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Oh, the 12 week old that we are babysitting for now (we have owners who will drive across two states to leave one of our dogs with us when they leave home for some time or not leave home) barks when she needs to go outside. She likes to go outside but she has already learned that when she goes out that she has to potty first before having fun.
 

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Tom,
You don't have any problems with your intact males 'marking' in the house, either?
Wow. You must be the 'Dog Whisperer' LOL.
I need to send Cru for a visit!
Dawna
 

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Sherman's Mom, Carol
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Hi, I got a male Havanese puppy 3 days ago. So far he pees on a puppy pad pretty reliably, but has no idea he's supposed to go outside and do it. He just runs around and waits until he comes inside to pee. I've made sure his scent is at the site where I want him to go. He just gets too excited and then has to take a nap! He's 3 1/2 months old and was only paper trained at the breeder's house. How long will this go on? Thanks.
 

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Dawna, The only time there's trouble is when we have a female just coming into heat. At the first sign of one maybe forgeting and starting to lift a leg I express my displeasure much louder than a whisper. There's usually a three way traffic jamb at the dog door immediately thereafter. Pam and I are both pack leaders and herd bosses here. From there we use belly bands until the bitch either starts her breeding cycle or until she is over the heat cycle if she's in a rest cycle. Once one of the males starts to breed a female the others accept it. Some even know which ones are theirs and don't offer any kind of challenge. The trouble is with the young bitches who haven't been claimed yet.
 

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Sherman, Be ready to take the pup outside as soon as possible when it first whimpers to wake up in the morning. It requires something ready quick to slip on. I'd use a leash and go back and read the part about standing in one place and no reinforcement until immediately after the pottying. First thing in the morning is the best time to start as the pup won't be able to resist going for very long.
 

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Tom,
The only female in our house is spayed. Cru still wants to mark pretty much anything that's standing still. I must not be a very good pack leader. lol
Dawna
 

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Sherman's Mom, Carol
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What do I do now?

Sherman is 4 months old but just barely recovered from a bout with parasites. He's still on Albon. This afternoon I felt sorry for him because he has to stay in his ex-pen whenever he's in the house. So I barricaded the kitchen and let him run around. He promptly pooped as far from the puppy pad as he could so I put him back in the pen with a fresh pad. He spent about 5 minutes shredding it to pieces. I don't know what else to do. I take him out at least every hour during the day and sometimes he pees on the grass, sometimes he doesn't. He's a sweet little puppy, but sometimes I wish I had stifled the urge to spend a fortune getting him. My cats are infinitely easier!
Any encouragement would be appreciated. I feel so defeated by this 6-lb dynamo.
Thanks,
Carol
 

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Try the Purina Puppy Litter in a box in the expen. He'll need to burn off any play energy before you first introduce him to the litter or he will probably think it's great fun to dig in it and sling it all around. I'd start with the expen folded in to 2x4 so it just has enough room for his sleeping area and the litter box. He may even sleep in the litter to start with but that's okay. Spread the expen out to a larger size once he starts using the litter which shouldn't be very long. When he first wakes up, don't go to him and baby talk to him. I go over and stand right next to the end where the box is, where I can pick the pup up the instant he is finished pottying. I say, "Go potty" mostly emotionless. Stand there as if you have infinite patience without even eye contact. The instant he has pottied, not after he has finished and is running around the pen, the INSTANT he is finished pick him up and cuddle and make sure he knows you are very pleased with him. Then he can have some free time outside the pen but still not unsupervised. When playtime is over or if he makes any signs of having to potty again he gets put back in the pen. Any time he's in the pen and he goes into the box you need to quickly go over and do the same routine again. It's all in the timing. They really do want to please you. I'm sure his "accidents" are that he just doesn't understand what the right thing to do is.

All our litters are moved to an expen in our living room so we can do this from the time they are 5 or 6 weeks old. As soon as I have one by itself I can have it trying to potty, even if it doesn't have to, in short order so it can come out to play. It's not cruelty. Other possible alternatives can be cruel. It's training that's necessary to have dogs live in the house with us.

Even after the pups are potty trained like this, it's still possible to mess it up. They won't behave in a way just because you want them to, but do want to behave in a way that suits you once they understand what is expected. You can't explain it to them by talking to them.

Remember the answer to all housetraining problems is Too Much Freedom and potty training is still not quite housetraining but a step along the way. Once some part of the process becomes messed up you have to go backwards in the process as far as is necessary.

The number one reason dogs are given up to rescue is because of housetraining problems.

Pam has spent a LOT of time a few times with puppy buyers who have assumed that potty trained meant housetrained and gave the pups too much freedom. I've heard the phone conversations sometimes and it's always the same thing over and over until the puppy owner finally understands. Timing and attention are of prime importance. It really doesn't take long once the trainer's timing is correct.

Keep us updated and good luck.
 

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Sherman's Mom, Carol
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Thanks, Tom. I agree that timing is important and Too Much Freedom is the enemy. Whenever Sherman makes an inappropriate puddle it's because I've let him out of his ex-pen. I think I've solved his habit of ripping up his puppy pads by putting both-sides sticky tape on it and plastering it to the floor. Also, he's tired now and not interested in shenanigans. I think he's bipolar! I think it's a big mistake to "feel sorry" that he has to stay in his pen in the kitchen when the cats and I are in the living room. I take him outside for 15 minutes at a crack every single hour during the day. I'm retired so I have plenty of time to devote to him. I also think the parasites issue has delayed the potty training a lot and I shouldn't be so hard on myself.
Thank you again for all your advice. I'll let you know if he ever makes progress.
 

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Goldie and Stogie
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Carol,
One thing I use are the washable pee pads. You can get them at Pets Mart I believe. I have three and always use them, and the dogs actually go on them. Havs are such shredders, the paper pee pads are just a challenge for them! HAHA

Also maybe trying to hide a treat and when he goes potty outside give him that treat and make a BIG deal out of it.
I cant tell you how many times Im standing out in the grass saying Come Potty and my two are on the door step looking at me.

It is a difficult process but if you are consistant, you will get there.

Another thing you could do, is get a spray bottle full of water and if you see them peeing on the carpet, squirt them from accross the room. They hate that.

I think being outside for a puppy is like a little kid at the baseball field. They forget they are supposed to potty because they get distracted. Like the little kid who misses the fly ball because he is picking weeds. You know? Its gets better!!!!!
 

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The plastic frames for the piddle pads really help. When we first started, we trained puppies to newspaper. We didn't have much luck with the piddle pads the first time, as they liked to shred them, until we discovered the frames. When Purina came out with the litter we started using that. Now we are using both the pads and litter. They have no trouble switching to outside. Sam's sells large boxes of "Underpads" in the pharmacy section that are larger, thicker, and cheaper than the piddle pads sold at Walmart and pet stores. Pam found a frame for the large ones somewhere. I'll ask when she gets back.

Pam was going through an airport with Roxie. A man had a newspaper on the chair beside him. She asked if he was finished with it. He said he was, so Pam laid it on the floor and told Roxie to "go potty". She squatted and peed on the paper. Pam folded it up, stuck it in a trashcan, and they caught the connecting flight. It's really the only way to go to have a potty trained dog.
 

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Petsmart sells it. It's in a yellow bag near where the piddle pads are.

http://www.doglitter.com/GetPage.aspx?D=7475103&T=3547396

We use and recommend for our puppy buyers a piece of naughahyde or better, marine upholstery vinyl cut about 6 inches bigger all around than the footprint of the expen. With that under the expen you can move it anywhere, like even on the carpeted floor in a living room, so the pup can stay close where you are while they are in the expen. I've raised so many like this that I'm subconciously watching them even with company and watching TV so I can train them at the right time. Timing of cues for training is not only important--timing when they are ready for it is also important.
 
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