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I do not feel comfortable with my dogs having the run of the house while I am gone. They pretty much sleep the whole time we are gone anyway. In addition to what @krandall said…if an emergency occurs and I need to have someone look in on my dogs I do not want to take the chance of them running outside and getting lost.
 

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My dogs love their crates. When I wash their bedding and go to replace it, Mia stands by whining wanting to get in and get her scent all over her nice fresh bedding! At our old house, we had crates upstairs in our bedroom and on the first floor In the main living area. Here at the new house, they have crates In the bedroom and beds in the main living area. At first they seemed upset that we did not have crates in the main living area and would go back into the bedroom to nap. However, they have adjusted to the new arrangement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Thanks. I guess it depends on the dog. My previous Hav had the run of the house when he was an adult. But he stayed always on the first floor, which was rather limited in size (live in a Victorian house and rooms are smallish.) He slept on the couch or leather chair in living room (ignoring his bed) and went to nearby kitchen for food and water. Would only go upstairs when we were upstairs. Liked to look out window behind the couch.
 

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Thanks. I guess it depends on the dog. My previous Hav had the run of the house when he was an adult. But he stayed always on the first floor, which was rather limited in size (live in a Victorian house and rooms are smallish.) He slept on the couch or leather chair in living room (ignoring his bed) and went to nearby kitchen for food and water. Would only go upstairs when we were upstairs. Liked to look out window behind the couch.
IMO, this could be more related to what the dog gets used to vs what the dog prefers. Dogs are creatures of habit. Just moving their bed to another area in the same room can cause a dog to raise its eyebrows.
 

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I do not feel comfortable with my dogs having the run of the house while I am gone. They pretty much sleep the whole time we are gone anyway. In addition to what @krandall said…if an emergency occurs and I need to have someone look in on my dogs I do not want to take the chance of them running outside and getting lost.
Another good reason I didn’t think of!
 
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Regardless of what you use, an expen or crate or both, it’s not a punishment unless it’s punishing. I think it’s about reframing how you see and use it, because to them it’s a cozy, safe place. There are other ways to manage and teach individual behaviors. Puppies don’t learn from long time outs anyway. Removing them from the situation for a moment to reset, or pausing play for a moment, can help make connections if it’s repetitive, but longer than a moment isn’t effective. With Sundance it works best to show him what to do instead, or to give him instructions to help him focus. Even two minutes later they have no way of connecting a behavior with a time out, especially if they’re overstimulated and there are a lot of distractions. It’s not that an expen can’t ever be used as a place to calm down, because puppies need safe containment sometimes, but that’s not the same as placing a puppy in an expen out of exasperation or annoyance as a traditional time out. Puppies sense it and that is what becomes punishing, especially with Havanese, because they love their people and want to please, and those memories can be strong. If you make it a cozy, safe place, that’s what it will be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
That's what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to force the pup to stay in a crate. I babygatted my dog when he was a puppy in the kitchen when we could not watch him. But not as punishment as an adult. Nevertheless, he seemed to have negative memories of being babygatted (similar to expen) as a adult because he knew "kitchen" was somewhere he did not want to be. So I think any kind of containment is hard on a dog. They want to be where you are.
 

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That's what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to force the pup to stay in a crate. I babygatted my dog when he was a puppy in the kitchen when we could not watch him. But not as punishment as an adult. Nevertheless, he seemed to have negative memories of being babygatted (similar to expen) as a adult because he knew "kitchen" was somewhere he did not want to be. So I think any kind of containment is hard on a dog. They want to be where you are.
I guess I don't baby gate or pen my dogs away from me unless I'm leaving the hose, except for very short period, and usually when they are very young. My dogs are gated in the office when I'm out of the house, or, perhaps if we have repairmen coming in and out and I don't have to worry about them getting out through a door left open. I can hardly think of another scenario as adults. They sleep in their bedroom crates at night, and eat in their dining room crates for a full 2 minutes at meal times. LOL!

And I don't "force" a puppy to stay in a crate! You will never have a dog who loves his crate that way!!! If you do not know how to teach a dog to love his crate, look into Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" program. It's not hard. ALL my dogs love their crates and go there preferentially. No one is making them stay in these crates. ;)
Plant Property Houseplant Flowerpot Table
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I guess I don't baby gate or pen my dogs away from me unless I'm leaving the hose, except for very short period, and usually when they are very young. My dogs are gated in the office when I'm out of the house, or, perhaps if we have repairmen coming in and out and I don't have to worry about them getting out through a door left open. I can hardly think of another scenario as adults. They sleep in their bedroom crates at night, and eat in their dining room crates for a full 2 minutes at meal times. LOL!

And I don't "force" a puppy to stay in a crate! You will never have a dog who loves his crate that way!!! If you do not know how to teach a dog to love his crate, look into Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" program. It's not hard. ALL my dogs love their crates and go there preferentially. No one is making them stay in these crates. ;) View attachment 177827
Those are real nice crates! I was not referring to your use of crates, but to a post that said we should avoid using the crate as a punishment -- which I totally agree with.
 

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Those are real nice crates! I was not referring to your use of crates, but to a post that said we should avoid using the crate as a punishment -- which I totally agree with.
Oh, I TOTALLY agree with that!!! I would NEVER use crating as a punishment. Then, I.m not big on punishment based training anyway...
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Oh, I TOTALLY agree with that!!! I would NEVER use crating as a punishment. Then, I.m not big on punishment based training anyway...
Me neither. But I spoiled my first dog and need to train the new one better. will use treats and hopefully a trainer, as well as puppy classes. Suggestions appreciated. Ky first dog, Pablo, got away with everything. But he was a good, sweet boy.
 

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Me neither. But I spoiled my first dog and need to train the new one better. will use treats and hopefully a trainer, as well as puppy classes. Suggestions appreciated. Ky first dog, Pablo, got away with everything. But he was a good, sweet boy.
You can train very, VERY successfully without the use of “punishment” like this! And there is no need for the dog to be spoiled. 😉
 

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Thanks. So it is really kind of a dog bed. When do you shut them in the crate? Seems kind of cruel to me. And can you move the crate to your bedroom at night or should you leave it in one place?
Perry is crated at night (to sleep), when he's on restriction (crate rest) from surgeries (he's had several and will have several more), and when we leave him (house/ hotel/ etc.) He's perfectly calm in it as long as we're around. He has separation anxiety when we leave so he does not like being in it when we leave the house, but I can almost guarantee that he wouldn't like being left alone outside the crate either.

I do not find a crate to be cruel - it's a safe space.
I do have a large crate (when we're in the US) for when he's on restriction or when we go out which gives him room for his bed and space to lie on the bare plastic (which he likes if he's hot).

Nice set up! I would hope to eventually give the dog the run or the house when we are not home. Don't know when that will happen, though, but I guess not until he's more than a year old.
A couple of things to consider before deciding to let your dog have “the run of the house” while you are gone. First, if you were to watch them, you would probably find that they mostly used a very small part of the house, settled down and slept most of the time you were gone. Dogs are crepuscular animals, meaning that they are instinctively most active at dawn and dusk, sleeping much of the rest of the time.

Second, in the event that there were to be a fire in your home, it is much easier for fire fighters to find and save a dog that is in a known location in the home that they can find quickly, rather than searching throughout a smoke filled house, looking under beds for a terrified small dog. For this reason, my dogs are confined to my office with a potty box and water when we are out. At 13 months, Ducky is still in a pen inside the office. The photo below was taken before Ducky’s Pen was set up.
View attachment 177820
If you do give them "run of the house" consider putting in a pet cam and seeing how they are... they may prefer something less open. When I got my last dog (a dalmatian), I had planned to let her have the run of the house/ yard when I was out - but soon realized that when I was gone she spent most / all of the time with her nose glued to the bottom of the front door, anxious, sniffing for me. She was much more calm and happy in her crate. She viewed it as her den and curled up as soon as she went in and napped.

I also completely agree with Karen on the safety aspect - fire, someone breaking in (cleaning service, etc.), etc. It's good to have the dog crated or in a restricted space so that they can easily be found/ stay safe. My sister had a house fire years ago - my other sister was home (lived across the street) and was able to get two fo the dogs out but because they had run of the house she hid and they couldn't find her. Luckily she did manage to get out herself - they found her hiding nearby later that day - but they would have been able to find her if she had been restricted to a specific room or area.

We traveled to Nairobi this week - and I remembered another reason for crate training - jet lag!!!!! Yes, dogs get jet lag too - and it's hard enough dealing with it yourself to add in a dog who is awake at 3 am thinking it's day time! I know because every time I woke up the first two nights I could hear Perry restlessly moving around (though being quiet as he always is) in his crate.
 

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That's what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to force the pup to stay in a crate. I babygatted my dog when he was a puppy in the kitchen when we could not watch him. But not as punishment as an adult. Nevertheless, he seemed to have negative memories of being babygatted (similar to expen) as a adult because he knew "kitchen" was somewhere he did not want to be. So I think any kind of containment is hard on a dog. They want to be where you are.
My pup Charlotte loves her crate. She also has a lot of anxiety. in fact, for the last two days she has had a heighten level of fear and anxiety and three times she went to her crate on her own as it is a safe space for her. crate Training is one of the best things we have done for her, given her anxiety and fear. ( ps we just started her on a higher dose of Prozac).
 

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My pup Charlotte loves her crate. She also has a lot of anxiety. in fact, for the last two days she has had a heighten level of fear and anxiety and three times she went to her crate on her own as it is a safe space for her. crate Training is one of the best things we have done for her, given her anxiety and fear. ( ps we just started her on a higher dose of Prozac).
I can't say that Perry loves his crate - I have no idea what his crate training was before I got him, but as an 8 month old rescue I imagine there wasn't a lot of gentle crate training involved with it. For a while he would go into it on his own when I asked him to if it was on our schedule (morning when I went to work and bed time) but any other time I would have to put him in... but lately he's more willing to go in when I ask him. Feeding him in his crate definitely helped.
 

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I can't say that Perry loves his crate - I have no idea what his crate training was before I got him, but as an 8 month old rescue I imagine there wasn't a lot of gentle crate training involved with it. For a while he would go into it on his own when I asked him to if it was on our schedule (morning when I went to work and bed time) but any other time I would have to put him in... but lately he's more willing to go in when I ask him. Feeding him in his crate definitely helped.

I know we've never met in person and I've never been to your house, but it feels so weird knowing you're not in PA anymore, but half way around the world again! 💕
 
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I know we've never met in person and I've never been to your house, but it feels so weird knowing you're not in PA anymore, but half way around the world again! 💕
Yep, finally back in East Africa again for a little while at least. Enjoying the weather (every day in the 70s). Only problems so far - once Perry snuck past me out the door into the compound (all fenced) - he'd found a chicken bone on the ground in the compound that morning so he would NOT listen to me at all and when I finally grabbed the treat bag to go get him I found him with the chicken bone (he was actually more interested in the treats so I told him to drop the bone and he came right over for a treat :) )... AND he's figured out that he can squeeze under the gate. He only tried to do it when he was on leash, but I figured with how afraid of everything he is (It took me a while to get him to go under the picnic table bench on his own at home) that he wouldn't even try to squeeze under the gate, but I guess the unexplored outside outweighs the potential fear of the gate :) so I have to be careful and make sure he does not get outside of the cottage off leash. We're on a cul de sac so not too afraid of traffic, but don't want to chase him down the road :).
 

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Lottle monkey!!! Would love to see some pictures!
 
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A couple of things to consider before deciding to let your dog have “the run of the house” while you are gone. First, if you were to watch them, you would probably find that they mostly used a very small part of the house, settled down and slept most of the time you were gone. Dogs are crepuscular animals, meaning that they are instinctively most active at dawn and dusk, sleeping much of the rest of the time.

Second, in the event that there were to be a fire in your home, it is much easier for fire fighters to find and save a dog that is in a known location in the home that they can find quickly, rather than searching throughout a smoke filled house, looking under beds for a terrified small dog. For this reason, my dogs are confined to my office with a potty box and water when we are out. At 13 months, Ducky is still in a pen inside the office. The photo below was taken before Ducky’s Pen was set up.
View attachment 177820
Are you using a grate-top litter tray INSIDE of a litter box? They fit perfectly. Please explain that particular part of your set up, thanks!
 
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