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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a first time dog owner. I have no previous experience with vaccination, and trusted my vet’s recommendation. On Friday around 5 pm Ona had her 3rd round of vaccine (14 wks). Lepto, and Canine flu. She had not had any reactions whatsoever with the 2nd round, and she seemed fine, so we went for a little hike. Midway through the hike she seemed tired. When I went to pick her up she whimpered in pain. From that moment on, she acted very lethargic, no appetite. She went straight to her crate when we got home. In the middle of the night she started crying. When I opened her crate she did a beeline for the litter box and had some diarrhea. She did that once more two hours later, but to my delight she was again feeling playful and more back to normal. The following day, Saturday, she was completely herself again. Her appetite was back. She ate three meals. However, the diarrhea continued (not continuously but when she pooped it was not solid), and once again she woke up in the middle of the night. This time I took her to bed with me. After settling down, she started gagging and vomited just clear saliva. And then had another leaky poop. She’s fast asleep now, but feels warm to the touch.
I have been reading (too late) about how bad this vaccine is for Havanese dogs, and I am worrying myself crazy. Please don’t make me feel worse by remarking what a bad idea it was… I did not know. Instead, I hope I can get some reassurance that this will pass, and that the fact that she still has diarrhea 36 hrs after the vaccine does not mean that she’s terribly ill (again, she was playful and energetic all day yesterday) It’s Sunday today and the vet is closed. I will call tomorrow. But if someone has gone through this, I would like to hear how soon your doggies recovered from these side effects. Thank you.
 

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I am a first time dog owner. I have no previous experience with vaccination, and trusted my vet’s recommendation. On Friday around 5 pm Ona had her 3rd round of vaccine (14 wks). Lepto, and Canine flu. She had not had any reactions whatsoever with the 2nd round, and she seemed fine, so we went for a little hike. Midway through the hike she seemed tired. When I went to pick her up she whimpered in pain. From that moment on, she acted very lethargic, no appetite. She went straight to her crate when we got home. In the middle of the night she started crying. When I opened her crate she did a beeline for the litter box and had some diarrhea. She did that once more two hours later, but to my delight she was again feeling playful and more back to normal. The following day, Saturday, she was completely herself again. Her appetite was back. She ate three meals. However, the diarrhea continued (not continuously but when she pooped it was not solid), and once again she woke up in the middle of the night. This time I took her to bed with me. After settling down, she started gagging and vomited just clear saliva. And then had another leaky poop. She’s fast asleep now, but feels warm to the touch.
I have been reading (too late) about how bad this vaccine is for Havanese dogs, and I am worrying myself crazy. Please don’t make me feel worse by remarking what a bad idea it was… I did not know. Instead, I hope I can get some reassurance that this will pass, and that the fact that she still has diarrhea 36 hrs after the vaccine does not mean that she’s terribly ill (again, she was playful and energetic all day yesterday) It’s Sunday today and the vet is closed. I will call tomorrow. But if someone has gone through this, I would like to hear how soon your doggies recovered from these side effects. Thank you.
First of all, please do not blame yourself! Many of us have been in the same situation. We trust our vets to do what is best for our dogs. I did the same thing. My Mia was over vaccinated and developed some seizures. She has never been vaccinated again. And she has turned out to be a healthy dog.

My main concern would be dehydration. Can you get some water into her? One thing that can be helpful is using a hypodermic syringe full of water and using it to squirt small amounts of water into her mouth. You can usually get these syringes at a drug store. You could also have her just lick it off your fingers. Anything you can do to get water into her will help avoid dehydration. If you feed kibble, please soak it in water to get some fluid into her that way also.

Also, is there blood in stool? Is she vomiting also? That could be more serious and warrant an emergency vet visit. This could mean parvovirus and for that time is of the essence. However, if she just has loose stool and otherwise playful and not lethargic, I would say waiting until tomorrow is fine.

One thing I always keep on hand is slippery elm powder. This can be mixed with water to make a paste and either mixed with food or squirted into the mouth with a syringe. The dosage is 1/4 tsp per 10 pounds. This is very helpful in soothing an irritated digestive tract as well as relieves loose stools or constipation.

I am sending hugs and prayers to you and your dog. I know this can be scary. Please keep us updated.

Again, please do not blame yourself! The key thing is to learn from our experiences.
 

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Owned by a Havallon
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I am a first time dog owner. I have no previous experience with vaccination, and trusted my vet’s recommendation. On Friday around 5 pm Ona had her 3rd round of vaccine (14 wks). Lepto, and Canine flu. She had not had any reactions whatsoever with the 2nd round, and she seemed fine, so we went for a little hike. Midway through the hike she seemed tired. When I went to pick her up she whimpered in pain. From that moment on, she acted very lethargic, no appetite. She went straight to her crate when we got home. In the middle of the night she started crying. When I opened her crate she did a beeline for the litter box and had some diarrhea. She did that once more two hours later, but to my delight she was again feeling playful and more back to normal. The following day, Saturday, she was completely herself again. Her appetite was back. She ate three meals. However, the diarrhea continued (not continuously but when she pooped it was not solid), and once again she woke up in the middle of the night. This time I took her to bed with me. After settling down, she started gagging and vomited just clear saliva. And then had another leaky poop. She’s fast asleep now, but feels warm to the touch.
I have been reading (too late) about how bad this vaccine is for Havanese dogs, and I am worrying myself crazy. Please don’t make me feel worse by remarking what a bad idea it was… I did not know. Instead, I hope I can get some reassurance that this will pass, and that the fact that she still has diarrhea 36 hrs after the vaccine does not mean that she’s terribly ill (again, she was playful and energetic all day yesterday) It’s Sunday today and the vet is closed. I will call tomorrow. But if someone has gone through this, I would like to hear how soon your doggies recovered from these side effects. Thank you.
First of all, please do not blame yourself! Many of us have been in the same situation. We trust our vets to do what is best for our dogs. I did the same thing. My Mia was over vaccinated and developed some seizures. She has never been vaccinated again. And she has turned out to be a healthy dog.

My main concern would be dehydration. Can you get some water into her? One thing that can be helpful is using a hypodermic syringe full of water and using it to squirt small amounts of water into her mouth. You can usually get these syringes at a drug store. You could also have her just lick it off your fingers. Anything you can do to get water into her will help avoid dehydration. If you feed kibble, please soak it in water to get some fluid into her that way also.

Also, is there blood in stool? Is she vomiting also? That could be more serious and warrant an emergency vet visit. This could mean parvovirus and for that time is of the essence. However, if she just has loose stool and otherwise playful and not lethargic, I would say waiting until tomorrow is fine.

One thing I always keep on hand is slippery elm powder. This can be mixed with water to make a paste and either mixed with food or squirted into the mouth with a syringe. The dosage is 1/4 tsp per 10 pounds. This is very helpful in soothing an irritated digestive tract as well as relieves loose stools or constipation.

I am sending hugs and prayers to you and your dog. I know this can be scary. Please keep us updated.

Again, please do not blame yourself! The key thing is to learn from our experiences.
 

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Yes, thank you for the dehydration tip. She won’t drink from her bowl, but she will drink from my cupped hand 🤷🏼‍♀️
So sorry to hear about your little girl not feeling well…and like mpm said, don’t blame yourself! I agree that keeping her hydrated is probably the biggest issue, as long as there isn’t blood in her stool and she seems ok. Giving her water from your hand is a good idea, and if that stops working, I also will do some (unsalted) beef or chicken broth which mine like, or some rice with extra water in it.

You’re in South Berkeley, right? Pets Referral on University is a wonderful emergency vet if you do end up needing to get her treatment before tomorrow. My dogs only seem to get sick/injured late at night, on holidays, or on the weekend so we’ve been there quite a few times and they’re great. Also happy to talk about our experiences with a few other vets in the area if helpful if you want to DM me.
 

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This is good to know and thank you for sharing. Myles recently got his DA2PP (distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus, parainfluenza) and Lepto (an add on) last week. Though, he didn't have diarrhea he was achy and I could tell that he was in pain. He couldn't' even jump up on the bed. He seemed tired and fatigued too. But he was fine the next day (back to his normal self barking out the window, jumping on and off the couch and bed as usual) LOL.
This is his second time getting the Lepto vaccine. However, it was the first time getting it with his yearly vaccine. Last year, he got the Lepto in June and his yearly vaccine is usually in Sept and I added a 3 yr rabbies. So, the vaccine was given 3 months apart and he was fine with no symptoms at all. This year, I decided to have him get the DA2PP and Lepto both at the same time saving me a trip to the Vet. Turns out, it was a bad idea. I should've known that like humans, our fur babies would feel achy and in pain. I suggest not to get the Lepto with any other vaccine. Try spacing it out a month or two. In my opinion, if you live in the city and go to parks often, I would recommend the Lepto vaccine. But if you live in rural areas, where wild life is abundant, I think the Lyme vaccine would be a better choice.
Since, I live in the city, and walk Myles to parks every day, I feel more safe and confident that he's protected from rat urine and feces in the streets. There are just too many rats crawling all over the place. No matter how hard the city tries to combat these rodents, they just multiply in the hundreds. There is a good documentary on Netflix about how smart these rats are.

Anyway, back to our pups, try separating the vaccines and see if that helps.
I do hope Ona is feeling better. She's still a little baby.

Also take into consideration that age and weight might play a factor too. Myles is 2.3 yrs now and he's gained an extra half pound weighing 13 lbs.
In my opinion, I don't think our fur babies under age 1 should get the lepto or lyme vaccine. That's just my opinion of course. Your vet might push it so it's up to your discretion. I just feel that our pups should at least build up some immune system with just the necessary vaccines first to be able to handle add on vaccines like lepto and lyme. Again it's just my opinion. I'm not a Vet but I do research and there's a lot of contradicting theories and incidents that you really have to be a judge of your own.

Has anyone heard of a 3 yr DA2PP vaccine? Has your pup taken it?
I asked my Vet and they don't offer it. Has anyone stopped giving their pups vaccines after age 3 and up? Would love to hear your story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So sorry to hear about your little girl not feeling well…and like mpm said, don’t blame yourself! I agree that keeping her hydrated is probably the biggest issue, as long as there isn’t blood in her stool and she seems ok. Giving her water from your hand is a good idea, and if that stops working, I also will do some (unsalted) beef or chicken broth which mine like, or some rice with extra water in it.

You’re in South Berkeley, right? Pets Referral on University is a wonderful emergency vet if you do end up needing to get her treatment before tomorrow. My dogs only seem to get sick/injured late at night, on holidays, or on the weekend so we’ve been there quite a few times and they’re great. Also happy to talk about our experiences with a few other vets in the area if helpful if you want to DM me.
Thank you Lisa, for the recommendations. My current vet was also recommended to me by a friend. They were not my first choice but they were the ones that could see Ona the earliest, and that was three weeks. All the others were booked up for at least a month! In any case, Ona seems totally recovered now. Phew!
So sorry to hear about your little girl not feeling well…and like mpm said, don’t blame yourself! I agree that keeping her hydrated is probably the biggest issue, as long as there isn’t blood in her stool and she seems ok. Giving her water from your hand is a good idea, and if that stops working, I also will do some (unsalted) beef or chicken broth which mine like, or some rice with extra water in it.

You’re in South Berkeley, right? Pets Referral on University is a wonderful emergency vet if you do end up needing to get her treatment before tomorrow. My dogs only seem to get sick/injured late at night, on holidays, or on the weekend so we’ve been there quite a few times and they’re great. Also happy to talk about our experiences with a few other vets in the area if helpful if you want to DM me.
Thank you Lisa for all the recommendations. The vet I am seeing was recommended by a friend, but it was not my first choice. It just happened that it was the only one that could check her out in less than a month time, and I really wanted to get her started. I will DM you to find out whether you think I have better options locally.
The good news is that Ona is completely back to normal. I added a probiotic, and her stools are finally what they used to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is good to know and thank you for sharing. Myles recently got his DA2PP (distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus, parainfluenza) and Lepto (an add on) last week. Though, he didn't have diarrhea he was achy and I could tell that he was in pain. He couldn't' even jump up on the bed. He seemed tired and fatigued too. But he was fine the next day (back to his normal self barking out the window, jumping on and off the couch and bed as usual) LOL.
This is his second time getting the Lepto vaccine. However, it was the first time getting it with his yearly vaccine. Last year, he got the Lepto in June and his yearly vaccine is usually in Sept and I added a 3 yr rabbies. So, the vaccine was given 3 months apart and he was fine with no symptoms at all. This year, I decided to have him get the DA2PP and Lepto both at the same time saving me a trip to the Vet. Turns out, it was a bad idea. I should've known that like humans, our fur babies would feel achy and in pain. I suggest not to get the Lepto with any other vaccine. Try spacing it out a month or two. In my opinion, if you live in the city and go to parks often, I would recommend the Lepto vaccine. But if you live in rural areas, where wild life is abundant, I think the Lyme vaccine would be a better choice.
Since, I live in the city, and walk Myles to parks every day, I feel more safe and confident that he's protected from rat urine and feces in the streets. There are just too many rats crawling all over the place. No matter how hard the city tries to combat these rodents, they just multiply in the hundreds. There is a good documentary on Netflix about how smart these rats are.

Anyway, back to our pups, try separating the vaccines and see if that helps.
I do hope Ona is feeling better. She's still a little baby.

Also take into consideration that age and weight might play a factor too. Myles is 2.3 yrs now and he's gained an extra half pound weighing 13 lbs.
In my opinion, I don't think our fur babies under age 1 should get the lepto or lyme vaccine. That's just my opinion of course. Your vet might push it so it's up to your discretion. I just feel that our pups should at least build up some immune system with just the necessary vaccines first to be able to handle add on vaccines like lepto and lyme. Again it's just my opinion. I'm not a Vet but I do research and there's a lot of contradicting theories and incidents that you really have to be a judge of your own.

Has anyone heard of a 3 yr DA2PP vaccine? Has your pup taken it?
I asked my Vet and they don't offer it. Has anyone stopped giving their pups vaccines after age 3 and up? Would love to hear your story.
Thank you. Yes Ona is 14 wks and 5 lbs, and I think it was too much for her. I will be more discerning next time. I also live in an urban area and I see the occasional rat, even in people's backyards, so I think Lepto may be a good idea. I don't have a yard myself, and will rely on parks for playtime, so I would like my dog to be as protected as possible, although I read is not 100%. In any case, as you have read above, Ona is fully recovered, thank god!
 

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Thank you. Yes Ona is 14 wks and 5 lbs, and I think it was too much for her. I will be more discerning next time. I also live in an urban area and I see the occasional rat, even in people's backyards, so I think Lepto may be a good idea. I don't have a yard myself, and will rely on parks for playtime, so I would like my dog to be as protected as possible, although I read is not 100%. In any case, as you have read above, Ona is fully recovered, thank god!
The veterinarians we have seen for yearly exams have never recommended the Lepto vaccine. They always ask if I would like it given, but I've decided against it. We live in an area where there is wildlife. The last time we were at the vet I asked whether the influenza vaccine might be a good idea. She didn't think it was necessary. We also live in the Bay Area.
 

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This is good to know and thank you for sharing. Myles recently got his DA2PP (distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus, parainfluenza) and Lepto (an add on) last week. Though, he didn't have diarrhea he was achy and I could tell that he was in pain. He couldn't' even jump up on the bed. He seemed tired and fatigued too. But he was fine the next day (back to his normal self barking out the window, jumping on and off the couch and bed as usual) LOL.
This is his second time getting the Lepto vaccine. However, it was the first time getting it with his yearly vaccine. Last year, he got the Lepto in June and his yearly vaccine is usually in Sept and I added a 3 yr rabbies. So, the vaccine was given 3 months apart and he was fine with no symptoms at all. This year, I decided to have him get the DA2PP and Lepto both at the same time saving me a trip to the Vet. Turns out, it was a bad idea. I should've known that like humans, our fur babies would feel achy and in pain. I suggest not to get the Lepto with any other vaccine. Try spacing it out a month or two. In my opinion, if you live in the city and go to parks often, I would recommend the Lepto vaccine. But if you live in rural areas, where wild life is abundant, I think the Lyme vaccine would be a better choice.
Since, I live in the city, and walk Myles to parks every day, I feel more safe and confident that he's protected from rat urine and feces in the streets. There are just too many rats crawling all over the place. No matter how hard the city tries to combat these rodents, they just multiply in the hundreds. There is a good documentary on Netflix about how smart these rats are.

Anyway, back to our pups, try separating the vaccines and see if that helps.
I do hope Ona is feeling better. She's still a little baby.

Also take into consideration that age and weight might play a factor too. Myles is 2.3 yrs now and he's gained an extra half pound weighing 13 lbs.
In my opinion, I don't think our fur babies under age 1 should get the lepto or lyme vaccine. That's just my opinion of course. Your vet might push it so it's up to your discretion. I just feel that our pups should at least build up some immune system with just the necessary vaccines first to be able to handle add on vaccines like lepto and lyme. Again it's just my opinion. I'm not a Vet but I do research and there's a lot of contradicting theories and incidents that you really have to be a judge of your own.

Has anyone heard of a 3 yr DA2PP vaccine? Has your pup taken it?
I asked my Vet and they don't offer it. Has anyone stopped giving their pups vaccines after age 3 and up? Would love to hear your story.
The AVMA has not recommended distemper or parvo vaccines yearly for MANY years now. The recommendation is for boosters every three years. Many of us with Havanese, and those, in general, who believe in avoiding over vaccinating, while still keeping our dogs safe, prefer to titer for parvo and distemper annually (or every three years) and ONLY booster if the titer drops. My oldest dog is 13, and has shown no signs of his titers dropping yet!

Lepto is a vaccine that is not well tolerated, so people do need to weigh the risks vs. the benefits carefully. Lepto is easily curable if caught and treated early, the vaccine does not protect agaist all strains. So do not be too sure your dog is safe just because he is vaccinated. It also must be repeated annually, so you are annually exposing your dog to a known problematic vaccine on the POSSIBILITY that he MIGHT be exposed to the pathogen. Again, everyone’s risks, and risk tolerance will vary. I‘ll take my chances with the disease over the KNOWN risks of the vaccine.

Lyme vaccine is not particular effective, and does absolutely nothing to protect the dog against any of the other tick borne diseases. I prefer to protect my dogs (as much as possible!) from ticks than to be inject them with yet another vaccine of dubious value.
 

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I thought I would add the list of symptoms of Lepto here. EVERYONE should be aware of them. Those whose dogs are not vaccinated, AND those whose dogs are vaccinated. As both I and MPM have pointed out, do NOT feel complacent because you have vaccinated your dog for lepto. They are STILL at risk, because the vaccine is not protective against all strains… and it wears off.

Quite a few of the dogs who die of lepto have been “vaccinated“ dogs whose owners did not seek treatment in time, thinking it “couldn’t be lepto because Spot was vaccinated for it”. Do know the symptoms, and be proactive about seeking treatment:

Symptoms of Leptospirosis in Dogs
  • Sudden fever and illness.
  • Sore muscles; reluctance to move.
  • Stiffness in muscles and legs; stiff gait.
  • Shivering.
  • Weakness.
  • Depression.
  • Lack of appetite.
  • Increased thirst and urination—may be indicative of chronic renal (kidney) failure, progressing to an inability to urinate.
 

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I’m so glad little Ona is doing better!!
I worry about rodents too (we definitey have lots in Berkeley!), so definitely considered doing lepto. My understanding is that the vaccine doesn’t work against all strains (as is true with many viruses), and that any symptoms should always warrant testing for lepto if it’s an issue in the area even if a dog has been vaccinated. Because of that, we’ve chosen to not vaccinate against lepto, monitor our dogs to make sure they’re not drinking from puddles, and bring to the vet if there are GI or other symptoms. But for people who are regularly hiking with their dogs, or whose dogs spend time outside unattended, I definitely see the rationale!!

I hear you about it being hard finding a vet…can definitely be tough getting in somewhere as a new patient, especially post pandemic. And ER wait times are through the roof. But for now, it’s just good that Ona is doing well and back to enjoying puppyhood! We look forward to meeting you both in a couple of weeks!
 

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I thought I would add the list of symptoms of Lepto here. EVERYONE should be aware of them. Those whose dogs are not vaccinated, AND those whose dogs are vaccinated. As both I and MPM have pointed out, do NOT feel complacent because you have vaccinated your dog for lepto. They are STILL at risk, because the vaccine is not protective against all strains… and it wears off.

Quite a few of the dogs who die of lepto have been “vaccinated“ dogs whose owners did not seek treatment in time, thinking it “couldn’t be lepto because Spot was vaccinated for it”. Do know the symptoms, and be proactive about seeking treatment:

Symptoms of Leptospirosis in Dogs
  • Sudden fever and illness.
  • Sore muscles; reluctance to move.
  • Stiffness in muscles and legs; stiff gait.
  • Shivering.
  • Weakness.
  • Depression.
  • Lack of appetite.
  • Increased thirst and urination—may be indicative of chronic renal (kidney) failure, progressing to an inability to urinate.
You said it much better! And thank you for posting the symptoms!
 

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I’m so glad little Ona is doing better!!
I worry about rodents too (we definitey have lots in Berkeley!), so definitely considered doing lepto. My understanding is that the vaccine doesn’t work against all strains (as is true with many viruses), and that any symptoms should always warrant testing for lepto if it’s an issue in the area even if a dog has been vaccinated. Because of that, we’ve chosen to not vaccinate against lepto, monitor our dogs to make sure they’re not drinking from puddles, and bring to the vet if there are GI or other symptoms. But for people who are regularly hiking with their dogs, or whose dogs spend time outside unattended, I definitely see the rationale!!

I hear you about it being hard finding a vet…can definitely be tough getting in somewhere as a new patient, especially post pandemic. And ER wait times are through the roof. But for now, it’s just good that Ona is doing well and back to enjoying puppyhood! We look forward to meeting you both in a couple of weeks!
Actually, what my vet recommends is… for dogs like mine, who have minimal exposure and a careful owner, no lepto vaccine and if there are symptoms test, but start treatment IMMEDIATELY, because permanent organ damage can happen before the test comes back.

For dogs that actually are at high risk, like hunting dogs who are out in swamp lands for days at a time, she recommends vaccinating, but STILL the same exact protocol for testing/treatment at the first sign of symptoms.
 

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Actually, what my vet recommends is… for dogs like mine, who have minimal exposure and a careful owner, no lepto vaccine and if there are symptoms test, but start treatment IMMEDIATELY, because permanent organ damage can happen before the test comes back.

For dogs that actually are at high risk, like hunting dogs who are out in swamp lands for days at a time, she recommends vaccinating, but STILL the same exact protocol for testing/treatment at the first sign of symptoms.
That’s REALLY good to know!
 

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My girl had her puppy shots and got IBD shortly after (not necessarily blaming it on the shots but I'm also suspecting) but she is now 7.5 years old and had never had or will ever have another vaccination. And she did not have lepto in her puppy vax, so many react to that one in particular. Thankfully we don't live in a lyme (or heartworm) area so don't treat for those. And thank you God she's never had fleas or ticks as I wouldn't be able to treat her for those either with her IBD (not even the natural stuff for her). I've titered her and one was ok the other was negative but I talked with Dr Jean Dodds (the vaccine guru who came up with the three year if that vaccination protocol, etc) and she assured me that Sophie likely has just not come across parvo in a long time so her antibodies are dormant but would mount a defense if she did some across it again. I do try to keep her away from other dogs poop at the park etc and due to her IBD we never have visitors or doggie play dates anymore as that bit of fun and excitement can set her gut off. :( So she's fairly shielded but we do go for a run at a park/school every day. Vaccines can be hard on the immune system especially if given too often or together.
 
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