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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Stay away from this breeder at all costs. I got a Havanese puppy from Nancy Noble in 2012. We have had endless hereditary health problems throughout his life. Nancy has been breeding 10 litters a year of these dogs with no thought about health or standards. She has probably set the Havanese breed back decades. Our dog was diagnosed with juvenile cataracts at the age of two. One of his retinas detached immediately and at the age of five we tried to save the other with cataract surgery. After $3500 and many many eye drops and vet visits the surgery was a bust. His eyes were just to bad. We actually took him to the vet that Nancy recommended down in Athens, GA to have him checked out and were told he would lose his eyes in the future. That day is today. I am writing this while he is in surgery to have both eyes removed at the age of seven. I contacted Nancy and she told me I could return the dog. That is also what Teddy Bear is offering. It is a BS guarantee because no one is going to return a dog that they have lived with and loved for years. I asked Nancy if she had run into this with other dogs and she told me that she had bred dogs with cataracts. Actually bred a dog that had cataracts at that time! She said that had only happened three times though! She did return my money for the dog at that time but I feel like there needs to be a warning sent out about this breeder. I wish that I had gotten this out when Nancy still owned the business but since Teddy Bear Havanese is using the same lineage this will have to do.
This is just the beginning of his hereditary problems. He is extremely bow legged from chondrodysplasia and has bad allergies that require special food among other things. We have been told by countless vets that this is because of his terrible breeding. I hope this will stop some unknowing people from purchasing a sickly dog from this breeder or maybe this breeder will change their ways. These sweet little dogs don't deserve to go through life with so much pain and discomfort.
 

· Metrowest, MA
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I’m sorry for the problems you and your little guy have had, and I hope it will warn puppy buyers to check into breeders carefully befor they decide to choose a breeder! :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Live and Learn

Thanks Krandal. I have learned from this experience and will never get another puppy without doing an on-site visit to the breeder. I got our little man online from Nancy and she met us halfway to deliver him. She had him in the back off a jeep with the top and the doors off. He was wet and freezing when I got him. This should have been a huge red flag but I was excited about the little guy. I now realize that if I had gone to her home I would have known that she was over breeding her dogs.
 

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I'm sorry for what you and your dog have gone through. Thank you for the warning.
I wish there was a way to sort out the breeders for those of us not in the dog world. Trying to buy a puppy was one of the worst experiences I've ever had.
 

· Metrowest, MA
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Thanks Krandal. I have learned from this experience and will never get another puppy without doing an on-site visit to the breeder. I got our little man online from Nancy and she met us halfway to deliver him. She had him in the back off a jeep with the top and the doors off. He was wet and freezing when I got him. This should have been a huge red flag but I was excited about the little guy. I now realize that if I had gone to her home I would have known that she was over breeding her dogs.
How sad. I've heard some worrisome things about them before.
 
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· Metrowest, MA
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I'm sorry for what you and your dog have gone through. Thank you for the warning.
I wish there was a way to sort out the breeders for those of us not in the dog world. Trying to buy a puppy was one of the worst experiences I've ever had.
I think there is a way, though... we have some good guidance here on the forum. I was not involved with the dog world when I got Kodi. I talked to a number of breeders and asked a lot of questions. I promised myself I wouldn't settle. When I found the Kings throught this forum and talked to them, I knew they were the "right" breeders for me to work with. When I meet the puppy buyers who buy from my breeder friends here in MA, it's the same. They develop a relationship. It's not just "buying a puppy". I think the important part is to make that connection FIRST.

Fiind your breeder first.
 

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Thanks Krandal. I have learned from this experience and will never get another puppy without doing an on-site visit to the breeder. I got our little man online from Nancy and she met us halfway to deliver him. She had him in the back off a jeep with the top and the doors off. He was wet and freezing when I got him. This should have been a huge red flag but I was excited about the little guy. I now realize that if I had gone to her home I would have known that she was over breeding her dogs.
This should be a BIG RED FLAG WARNING ....when a breeder wants to deliver a dog. It's SO!! important to visit the breeder and check out the dogs and the place.

I hope this breeder is turned into the the local authorities and you get the word out.

OTOH .... Your little guy is so LUCKY to have found you. :crying:
 

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Stay away from this breeder at all costs. I got a Havanese puppy from Nancy Noble in 2012. We have had endless hereditary health problems throughout his life. Nancy has been breeding 10 litters a year of these dogs with no thought about health or standards. She has probably set the Havanese breed back decades. Our dog was diagnosed with juvenile cataracts at the age of two. One of his retinas detached immediately and at the age of five we tried to save the other with cataract surgery. After $3500 and many many eye drops and vet visits the surgery was a bust. His eyes were just to bad. We actually took him to the vet that Nancy recommended down in Athens, GA to have him checked out and were told he would lose his eyes in the future. That day is today. I am writing this while he is in surgery to have both eyes removed at the age of seven. I contacted Nancy and she told me I could return the dog. That is also what Teddy Bear is offering. It is a BS guarantee because no one is going to return a dog that they have lived with and loved for years. I asked Nancy if she had run into this with other dogs and she told me that she had bred dogs with cataracts. Actually bred a dog that had cataracts at that time! She said that had only happened three times though! She did return my money for the dog at that time but I feel like there needs to be a warning sent out about this breeder. I wish that I had gotten this out when Nancy still owned the business but since Teddy Bear Havanese is using the same lineage this will have to do.
This is just the beginning of his hereditary problems. He is extremely bow legged from chondrodysplasia and has bad allergies that require special food among other things. We have been told by countless vets that this is because of his terrible breeding. I hope this will stop some unknowing people from purchasing a sickly dog from this breeder or maybe this breeder will change their ways. These sweet little dogs don't deserve to go through life with so much pain and discomfort.
Why is the Vet REMOVING EYES? Dogs and people go blind and don't have EYES removed?
 

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You are very lucky to have found a breeder that is honest. Thing is that it is hard to find honest opinions from people who really know how to assess good dogs. Often other breeders don't want to start problems with competitors by telling someone the truth. Most pet owners don't really know much other than they have a cute dog. There are no records to find usually.

I hope my Hav is a healthy one with a long, great life ahead. I think his breeder was ok but only time will tell since is almost 3. His father was a GCH, his mother a CH. The breeder did health testing. Not sure if it was adequate. I really tried hard to find any information about his breeder and came up with nothing. I had not found this site yet when I was looking for my boy. But I asked my vet, my groomer, friends.,,anyone I could think of and came up with zero.

I so wish there was an easier way to find a healthy, well bred puppy. Well, maybe not, I would probably be getting a friend for Shadow.
 

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You are very lucky to have found a breeder that is honest. Thing is that it is hard to find honest opinions from people who really know how to assess good dogs. Often other breeders don't want to start problems with competitors by telling someone the truth. Most pet owners don't really know much other than they have a cute dog. There are no records to find usually.

I hope my Hav is a healthy one with a long, great life ahead. I think his breeder was ok but only time will tell since is almost 3. His father was a GCH, his mother a CH. The breeder did health testing. Not sure if it was adequate. I really tried hard to find any information about his breeder and came up with nothing. I had not found this site yet when I was looking for my boy. But I asked my vet, my groomer, friends.,,anyone I could think of and came up with zero.

I so wish there was an easier way to find a healthy, well bred puppy. Well, maybe not, I would probably be getting a friend for Shadow.
You can tell a lot if just by making a visit to check out the breeder, look at the the breeding dogs, the puppies and ask what Health Checks are being made. Where are the dogs kept? Do they live in the home and are they part of the family? Are they AKC registered? Ask for referrals from persons who have purchased puppies? Google Reviews of the Breeder. Often you'll find info at your finger tips. You can even ask to talk to their Vets.

If the breeder won't let you visit, or limits your visit ... walk away. You can tell a lot with a visit. I drove four hours one way ... twice to visit and pick up the a puppy. I would not have purchased a dog without visiting the breeder ... no matter how far away they were. Unless they were a well know breeder with referrals you trust.
 

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Why is the Vet REMOVING EYES? Dogs and people go blind and don't have EYES removed?
In another post he said the dog had also developed glaucoma, which causes a tremendous buildup of pressure (and thus, pain) in the eyes. There are other eye diseases in dogs (like Collie Eye) that are very painful as well as causing blindness too. Sometimes removing the eye IS the kindest thing to do.
 

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You can tell a lot if just by making a visit to check out the breeder, look at the the breeding dogs, the puppies and ask what Health Checks are being made. Where are the dogs kept? Do they live in the home and are they part of the family? Are they AKC registered? Ask for referrals from persons who have purchased puppies? Google Reviews of the Breeder. Often you'll find info at your finger tips. You can even ask to talk to their Vets.

If the breeder won't let you visit, or limits your visit ... walk away. You can tell a lot with a visit. I drove four hours one way ... twice to visit and pick up the a puppy. I would not have purchased a dog without visiting the breeder ... no matter how far away they were. Unless they were a well know breeder with referrals you trust.
I agree with all of that. Except, interestingly, the last sentence. I'm not sure that even if they were a well know breeder with referrals I trusted, I would be willing to buy a puppy from someone sight unseen. I would would take that as a great piece of information in favor of the breeder, but I'd still want to meet the person personally, and do as you (and I) did, GO THERE myself, meet the dogs, see how they are raised and meet the puppies.

You cannot (and should not expect) to always be able to choose the specific puppy in a litter that will be available to you. There are many variables involved in which puppy goes to which home. But you ALWAYS have the right to "vote with your feet" and say "no" to a specific puppy. I would NEVER do business with a breeder who would not refund a deposit if she did not have a puppy that she and I did not agree was the "right puppy" for me. I know there are some breeders who do this, but the good breeders have waiting lists for their puppies. They don't need to hold your money hostage. They are tying their stomach in knots feeling bad that they can't place one of their precious pups with everyone who wants one.
 
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Be sure and study the breeders contract and make changes if needed. They should return money if you find the puppy has genetic problems within a year, without returning a dog you have grown to love.

Take the puppy to the Vet soon after getting them home and have they checked and make sure you can return the puppy if Vet finds problems.

Ask to see to see the Vets Health Check of the breeding dogs and puppies.

It is VERY Scary dealing with a breeder you don't know. But, you will learn a WHOLE lot visiting the home. Spend some time there and talk with the family.

I agree with Karen ... you should meet the breeder no matter where they live. And ... Karen is the perfect person to tell you what to look for in contracts and visits.
 

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One more thing... there are Back Yard Breeders who may have good dogs, although, at this point I doubt I would go that route.

I live on 11-acres and behind me my neighbor lives on 10-acres. The wife is an animal LOVER!!! She has over 15 miniature horses that she shows and trains. At first she just bought miniature horses but as she learned, now purchases sells and breeds high quality miniature show horses. In addition, this family breeds and sells goats.

Over the last couple of years, the wife has started breeding her dogs and I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. She has a toy Poodle and an Austrian Cattle Dog, she purchased as family dogs, with a secondary purpose of breeding Designer Dogs. Both of her dogs are beautiful, well taken care of, live in the home and are part of the family. And, she sells these Designer Dogs for a pretty penny.

There have been two litters and most have been sold to people who know her. The last litter took a little longer to sell. Buyers are people who just want a Pet... There are Lots of people who sell dogs like this...including Havanese Back Yard Breeders.
 

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In another post he said the dog had also developed glaucoma, which causes a tremendous buildup of pressure (and thus, pain) in the eyes. There are other eye diseases in dogs (like Collie Eye) that are very painful as well as causing blindness too. Sometimes removing the eye IS the kindest thing to do.
OK ... BUT ... BUT... I have Glucoma and increased pressure in eyes is what causes Blindness. For humans .... There's a new procedure within the last two years, and the pressure can surgically be reduced. Before that if medication failed to work, there wasn't an alternative and humans went blind. I'm NOT suggesting there is Glacuoma pressure surgery for dogs.

Saying alll that....the reasons humans often go blind because of Glaucoma is because there is NO PAIN when the Pressure builds up in your eyes. Because there is NO PAIN!!!!... and humans don't know to go to the doctor. That's why people need to get exams...otherwise they often don't know they have Glaucoma and go blind.

Therefore, I'm really skeptical of your Vets knowledge.

I read on this thread about extreme things Vets are suggesting and doing. Braces for Dogs! Removing teeth at an early age, etc, etc. My dog had an extra tooth with one growing in behind it... I waited would have had it removed if it didn't fall out. But ... the baby tooth was finally pushed out. I can tell you FOR SURE I would not have put braces on my dog.

REMEMBER THIS.... the way Vets make money is by doing procedures. Some are VERY Quick to do lots of stuff.

Second Opinions ...is a very good idea when a doc suggest something extreme ...like removing eyes.

I had a 17 year old Poodle who went blind because of cataracts. NO!!!! I didn't even consider removing them. Maybe..Maybe...I might have considered it at a young age. You would have never known she was blind. She found her way around the yard, to the food bowel and bed ....without any problem.

After some research ... this is very unusual. Galucoma in dogs and humans are similar but it can result in pain and removal of the Eye in Dogs ... due to many other complications.

This is about the Saddest thing I've ever heard. The Positive is this dog ended up with a Loving Family who will take good care of this little one.
 

· Metrowest, MA
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OK ... BUT ... BUT... I have Glucoma and increased pressure in eyes is what causes Blindness. For humans .... There's a new procedure within the last two years, and the pressure can surgically be reduced. Before that if medication failed to work, there wasn't an alternative and humans went blind. I'm NOT suggesting there is Glacuoma pressure surgery for dogs.

Saying alll that....the reasons humans often go blind because of Glaucoma is because there is NO PAIN when the Pressure builds up in your eyes. Because there is NO PAIN!!!!... and humans don't know to go to the doctor. That's why people need to get exams...otherwise they often don't know they have Glaucoma and go blind.

Therefore, I'm really skeptical of your Vets knowledge.

I read on this thread about extreme things Vets are suggesting and doing. Braces for Dogs! Removing teeth at an early age, etc, etc. My dog had an extra tooth with one growing in behind it... I waited would have had it removed if it didn't fall out. But ... the baby tooth was finally pushed out. I can tell you FOR SURE I would not have put braces on my dog.

REMEMBER THIS.... the way Vets make money is by doing procedures. Some are VERY Quick to do lots of stuff.

Second Opinions ...is a very good idea when a doc suggest something extreme ...like removing eyes.

I had a 17 year old Poodle who went blind because of cataracts. NO!!!! I didn't even consider removing them. Maybe..Maybe...I might have considered it at a young age. You would have never known she was blind. She found her way around the yard, to the food bowel and bed ....without any problem.
Juvenile cataracts are a completely different thing from geriatric cataracts. This dog has been blind since he was two. He is seven now. I can't imagine that they have not explored other alternatives before resorting to this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I have definitely learned from this experience and will always go meet the breeder and their dogs before getting another puppy.
We didn't want to take his eyes out and we probably waited longer than we should have. His left eye's retina detached almost immediately when the juvenile cataracts came on at age two and the right eye's cataract started right when he turned five. We got the cataract surgery done on that eye to try to save it and he regained his sight for about six months. He's been completely blind ever since. His eyes have always had pressure issues but once his sight was gone both eyes got really bad glaucoma. We could tell he was in pain and we were giving him drops at least twice a day and sometimes up to four times a day. We have been to six different vets, for multiple opinions, through this whole ordeal and every single one has said that he would need his eyes removed one day. The final straw was when he was so depressed and had lost his appetite from the pain. His eyes swelled up so bad they were poking out and hard. It got to the point where he wouldn't let you pet his head. The drops would help but we were chasing it constantly. This has been the hardest thing I have had to do for a pet other than putting one down. His eyes, even when blind, were so sweet and he is adorable. I hope we can figure out a cool haircut for him so you can't notice that they are gone now. He had the surgery on Thursday and he's already eating better and seems to feel much better. We are actually having a hard time stopping him from playing so he doesn't mess up his stitches.
 

· Metrowest, MA
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I am SO glad to hear he is feeling so much better!!!

My Kodi is recovering from an injury, and like your little one, he's at the "feeling better" stage, and we're having a hard time keeping him down at this pint, and he's got at least another 3 weeks of enforced rest!!! It's hard for them to understand why playing is not a good idea!
 
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