awwwww, wow, what a great systems!!!

 

After this first session at the change, they slept for about 3 hours. I was able to catch each one as it stood up, and placed it in the box. There was a lot of "talking" about it amongst them, but no one got worked up.

One of the boys thought it was great fun, and walked a couple of circles on the edge, back and forth from the bed to the box.

There was one small leak spot from one of the boys, so I changed the bed to a clean one while they were all in the box.

Frolic nursed them, and now they are all sound asleep again. We'll do this for the first few days, until they are consistent about getting in the box on their own.

They have the instinct not to soil the bed, but we are starting this a couple of days before they really would start doing it on their own. The Mother would do a pretty good job of cleaning the bed area, but we want them getting used to clean bedding and earlier is better than too late.

You have to be a bit OCD to raise OCD puppies.

 

Wonderful. I will follow this thread as the puppies grow and master the potty thing. So interesting.

 

Love it!!!!They are growing so fast!

 

I've only tried the litter on 2 litters, one Havanese and the other sheltie. The shelties took to it right away and were inside and outside housebroken by the time they were 8 weeks. The Hav another story. The mother kept eating the litter, even when they hadn't gone on it and it was fresh. I worried about it causing problems by maybe swelling in her and took it away. I was using that litter Purina made, but haven't noticed it in the store lately. I'd like to try again on our next litter. What do you use and where do you get it?

 

We use smooth grained hardwood (not oak) heater wood pellets if we can find ones we like, or pine pellets sold in Tractor Supply for use in horse stalls. You can find the pine pellets year round in Tractor Supply or feed and tack shops.

edited to add in 2025: Tractor Supply only changed away from Pine pellets to those hardwood pellets for a while. They've been back to Pine for years since I made that post, and the Pine works much better.

We used the Purina for years since it first came out, but there are a number of reasons we like the wood pellets better-not the least is cost. Purina pellets had gotten up to something like $18 for 20 pounds. Wood pellets are 5 to 6 dollars for a 40 pound bag.

As you can see in the picture in the first post, you can tell what needs to be taken out. It never smells bad.


edited to add: We've only used the Equine Pine pellets for years since I first posted this. We get them in 40 lb. bags from Tractor Supply.

 

About 2 1/2 hours after the second wake up, Frolic decided she would nurse them. She cleaned them up while they were nursing. When she finished and jumpe out, I put them in the box. Only a couple had to go after her working on them. The bed was a bit damp, so they got another change, and are back asleep on clean bedding.

 

Do you have to do this all through the night also, putting them on the litter box?

Linda Cooper's Mom

 

I usually get up once or twice the first couple of nights. Pretty soon, they will be walking in on their own. One of the boys went in on his own right after he nursed this last time. They pick up on it pretty fast if you catch them at this stage at the right time. We have a baby monitor set up, and our bedroom is right beside the closet/whelping room -8x16'. They don't usually wake up unless the Mom is ready to nurse them, and they start talking about it so we can hear them on the monitor.

 

I am so impressed and find this very interesting. Can't wait for the next update.

Linda

 

Tom, I know this doesn't have a ton to do with the topic, but I wanted to tell you that I've enjoyed the videos on your website.

 

Tom, I'm very impressed with your level of commitment. No wonder you have a long waiting list!

 

This morning I moved the little platform that Frolic gets up on, before she jumps in to nurse, down on the litter box end. Now the pups run to get close to her while she sets up there the last minute or so before her milk lets down. This puts them automatically in the litter box when they first wake up.

I only had to change the bedding once in the night last night, and it's stayed dry all day today, so far.

With other Moms I would have changed the whole setup to start with, but Frolic has been funny about big changes before, so we're doing everything in steps for her.

Today the pups started mouthing each other in play sessions grabbing and twisting ears and noses. Frolic was out in the house with the other dogs and decided to carry a toy back to the babies.

Pam put a page on our website for these puppies finally. Any time any thing is changed on any page it dumps all the videos on that page. Since the navigation bars had to be changed on all the pages, all the videos on our site will be off for a while until I put each one back on. None are available (unless you are already on our waiting list).

http://www.starbornhavanese.com/newpuppies.html That page doesn't apply to the puppies in this thread anymore, we change that page with any new puppies we have, so it doesn't change other pages on the website, as it would if we added a new page each litter.

 

I am completely fascinated by this training. The pups are smart cookies learning how all this goes.

 

Thanks, Tom. We have Tractor Supply fairly close (about 20 minutes away. I do plan to try it next time, hope it works and the dam doesn't eat it like the Purina paper product. Could have been the paper.

 

We did have some trouble with eating of the Purina pellets, but it's been long enough ago that I don't remember if it was the Mom or pups-Havs do after all have a thing for paper. We've had no trouble with any eating of the wood pellets.

 

Love the new page with the pics! I showed it to the boys, they say their favorite is Jingle because he looks like Toby!

 

Tom, just such a wise method requiring a relatively short and intense commitment of time and proving once again that puppies learn what they do. Your buyers must be extremely pleased.

Keeper's Mom

 

Last night (second night) we both slept through. This morning the bedding was dry, and there were 5 poops in the box. Looks like Frolic is helping us by no longer cleaning them up. The litterbox has a lot of sawdust in it from the urine, so we'll completely change it now. I believe we timed this just right.

The litter box is one I made from a Sterilite box from Walmart. I heated a utility knife blade (clamped in ViseGrips) red hot with a propane torch, and cut the opening side about 1 1/2" high. You have to cut 6 or 8 inches, and reheat. It makes terrible fumes, so do this outside. This lets us put the top of the litter flush with the bedding. At this age, they are still not real sure-footed and are still toddling around a bit. They can climb over things, but we want it to be easy to get into the box when they first wake up. We are teaching them to hold it, starting with just a few steps.


The right sized box with a low enough opening is not commercially available, so I have to make them.

 

When I start to suffer from MHS, I am so going to go on Tom's waiting list. That is amazing!!

 

I would be TOOOOO, if I wasn't on the other side of the country!
but I got my 'eye' on a great one out west ...

 

Pam and I both had to go out for a while today. When I got back, there were some damp spots on the bedding (this is their second day with a litter box), and it looks like Frolic cleaned them up. They got their second bedding change today, after the first thing in the morning change. Frolic is a good partner in this, but it's by no means a done deal yet. A couple of the pups did go in the box on their own when they woke up when I came in.

They will get a progression over the next 5 or 6 weeks. We expect puppies to have the run of the living part of our house, with a box within 8' of anywhere, with no accidents, by the time they are 8 weeks. Number of boxes, and their distances, get sparser as they age.

I'll try to keep this thread updated for any breeders that would like to try our system.

Housetraining is the number one reason pups get turned into rescues. You hear the term "responsible breeder" all the time. We believe initial potty training is one of the most necessary things for any breeder who wants to be responsible-especially with Toy dogs.

A dog that is not a problem to house train gets so much more attention at a young age, and gets to become a member of the family so much sooner.

We are trying to ingrain the correct habits from the start. At this age, and for a good while, it's all about habit.

 

Housetraining is the number one reason pups get turned into rescues. You hear the term "responsible breeder" all the time. We believe initial potty training is one of the most necessary things for any breeder who wants to be responsible-especially with Toy dogs.

A dog that is not a problem to house train gets so much more attention at a young age, and gets to become a member of the family so much sooner.

We are trying to ingrain the correct habits from the start. At this age, and for a good while, it's all about habit.

You are an amazing breeder AND human being! I am very impressed with everything you're doing, well done for being so wonderful! :thumb:

 

Today, they were ready to start climbing out of the box, so they go to the second stage of setups. This was 11 days since we first started them on the litter. Time in the first stage will vary from litter to litter. It pays off bigtime to get the first stage down good for them. These have been keeping the bedding dry, day and night, for several days now, even with Frolic still nursing them.

They get two litter pans, one behind the other, so they can go farther away from the bed if they want to, which they usually do at some point along this time.

We start with an 18 inch expen so Mom can get in and out easily, and there are steps that the pups can't get up on yet to make it easy for Mom to get in and out, as well as take up some of the room in the pen.
The bed area is still about the same size.

The next step will be the step box sits up on edge, and next comes out of the end in the bedding side, so they get more room, and have some more steps to go to get to the box. We might put the box back in for a day or two if one starts peeing on the floor between the bed and the litter boxes.

 

I love this!!! Thank you so much for sharing

 

Tom is frolic a starborn Havanese and if so was she raised with the litter box?

 

Yes. Every female we have ever bred, since we started with Twinkle, was bred by us, and of course raised here. This morning, there were probably 10 poops in the box, so Frolic is turning the job over to us now. The two boxes gave plenty of room, so that none of it was stepped in. If one or more had stepped in any, we would have washed who and whatever needed washing.

They have been keeping the bedding dry for some days now. We still change it morning, afternoon, and bedtime anyway.

One boy had climbed out last night, and met us this morning with a wagging tail. The box inside the pen will get turned up on edge, giving them a bit more room, and making it harder for one to get out. Frolic is just a bit of a PrimaDonna when she has puppies, and will complain if she has to make too big of a step to start with. All the others would just jump over the 18" expen.

 

I find all of this just fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing.

Alanna

 

Me too! Thanks for sharing.