[krandall]

I'm glad every time it isn't a blanket recommendation against grain, even if it's not a particularly nuanced response. It's definitely worth bringing up with the vet, knowing he did well on grain free in the past.

Among breeds prone to dilated cardiomyopathy, I wonder how many people were feeding grain free to manage a sensitive stomach and how that has been handled since.

I really DON'T think most people were doing it to manage sensitive stomachs. It just became "the thing to do", without any real understanding of what potential problems legumes MIGHT cause. It is CLEAR that in dogs that HAVE DCM, taking them OFF grain free foods can immediately reverse their symptoms. SO there IS some connection. But that does NOT mean that it will CAUSE the problem in an otherwise healthy dog. It's like extrapolating that if salt is bad for people with high blood pressure, we should ALL strictly avoid salt. We now know that salt does not CAUSE high blood pressure, it's just bad for people who have it. (and NO salt is REALLY bad too!)

Since getting ready to breed Panda, I've learned more, and I now know that a more general, and well-documented problem with grain-free foods is that the high levels of plant-based progesterone in the legume-based foods can interfere with the bitch cycling. So it has reproductive implications if you have breeding stock. I know that's not a BIG concern in this group, but a bit of information to keep tucked away in the back of your minds.

 

[krandall]

I think that my vet's opposition to grain free is that most grain free have peas in them? He also thinks that Salmon might be too oily for the little belly. So far the requirements are grain inclusive, not salmon or chicken, no peas. Thanks, Karen, I will check out Natures Variety.

Honestly, although I like my vet when we are at the office and he is close for the motion sick Shadow, getting answers after the visit is tough. The staff is so rushed, they are super busy. With Covid, they have shortened the office hours a lot so they are open 4 less hours a day. When I have called, it is "can you hold" constantly. Go in and the phone is ringing constantly. I never get a complete answer to my question. It comes in dribs and drabs.
I have considered changing vets but the other vets that are close are not allowing people in the office due to covid. You get to speak on the phone after all is said and done. So switching/finding a new vet is going to be tough at this time although I am considering it. If not for the motion sickness, I would have more options maybe. The motion sickness is a huge PITA.

Could you ask for a "consult" appointment? Say you'll pay for the time, but you just want to set aside a period of time to actually TALK to the vet? For me, it would be well worth the cost!

 

[Mikki]

I think that my vet's opposition to grain free is that most grain free have peas in them? He also thinks that Salmon might be too oily for the little belly. So far the requirements are grain inclusive, not salmon or chicken, no peas. Thanks, Karen, I will check out Natures Variety.

Honestly, although I like my vet when we are at the office and he is close for the motion sick Shadow, getting answers after the visit is tough. The staff is so rushed, they are super busy. With Covid, they have shortened the office hours a lot so they are open 4 less hours a day. When I have called, it is "can you hold" constantly. Go in and the phone is ringing constantly. I never get a complete answer to my question. It comes in dribs and drabs.
I have considered changing vets but the other vets that are close are not allowing people in the office due to covid. You get to speak on the phone after all is said and done. So switching/finding a new vet is going to be tough at this time although I am considering it. If not for the motion sickness, I would have more options maybe. The motion sickness is a huge PITA.

Our local medical (MD) providers are using Zoom to chat with patients.:wink2:

Good Grief! even physicians are seeing patients in person. So are dentists and others. Has your Vet not heard of Masks! :frusty:

Sounds like your Vet is well established, close to retirement and doesn't need the money.

 

[mudpuppymama]

I wonder if all grain free foods are equal, just like any other food. I read an article that said either legumes or grains are needed to be able to make kibble. However, some manufacturers are using more legumes than they need to because it is a cheaper source of protein vs using meat. So in another words, they are substituting some of the animal protein with cheaper plant protein unnecessarily. Sometimes a little is okay but more is not.

 

[krandall]

Our local medical (MD) providers are using Zoom to chat with patients.:wink2:

Good Grief! even physicians are seeing patients in person. So are dentists and others. Has your Vet not heard of Masks! :frusty:

Sounds like your Vet is well established, close to retirement and doesn't need the money.

Grrr. Just happened again. I give up. Maybe I will re-compose later.

 

[Tere]

Our local medical (MD) providers are using Zoom to chat with patients.:wink2:

Good Grief! even physicians are seeing patients in person. So are dentists and others. Has your Vet not heard of Masks! :frusty:

Sounds like your Vet is well established, close to retirement and doesn't need the money.

MY vet and staff wear masks and they are required by anyone to enter the office.

OTHER area vets are NOT allowing people into the office. Covid is a pretty big deal here,

I probably am not able to do zoom. I am technclally challenged and don't know how to use a smartphone hardly. But I am sure that someone on his staff knows how to use zoom if he does not. They chose to see people/pets in the office and I am happy with that.

 

[farschie]

Reading with interest. My breeder recommended Purina Pro Plan and the vet was good with that too. So if not Purina, what do people recommend for puppies? Something that doesn't cost an arm and leg but is a good quality food? My sister uses Iams. Thoughts?

 

[Mikki]

MY vet and staff wear masks and they are required by anyone to enter the office.

OTHER area vets are NOT allowing people into the office. Covid is a pretty big deal here,

I probably am not able to do zoom. I am technclally challenged and don't know how to use a smartphone hardly. But I am sure that someone on his staff knows how to use zoom if he does not. They chose to see people/pets in the office and I am happy with that.

LOL!!....There are still telephones. Kidding you. :grin2:

I thought you needed to talk to the Vet and didn't understand you wanted to take Shadow back in.

 

[Tere]

I do have a few questions that I need answered from Monday. Was promised a call today. It didn't happen. They are so busy.

 

[GoWithTheFlo]

Hi Tere

So sorry to hear Shadow is still not better, it sounds like a really tough time for you both :frown2:

I keep reading your post and then wimping out on replying as I know food issues can get people pretty emotional on here! But just in case this does help at all am going to brave it and post:

Flo was a fussy eater and I tried various different kibbles, then freeze dried and finally (after lots of raving from other dog walkers in the park) raw. I've got a bit lost with all the posts over whether Shadow has an upset tummy because he is poorly or because he has a sensitive tummy. What I can say from feeding Flo raw is that she is happier with what goes in and I am happier with what comes out:smile2: On raw her poo is quite solid and has the nice benefit of being virtually fragrance free!

I'm not suggesting you should put Shadow on raw, especially at the moment with everything else going on. And I also know traditional vets over here (UK) don't seem very keen on Raw feeding, I think perhaps because of salmonella risks and the like, but I thought it was worth a go and it suits us.

Reason I mention this is because I looked up on my food supplier's website (naturalinstinct.com) and their 'Special Diet' raw dog food has some good reviews from owners whose dogs have colitis, pancreatitis and IBS. They also offer a 'Pure' range which although not a complete balanced meal, so not suitable on it's own long term, might be useful in the short term for ruling out food allergies. This is a UK company so may be unlikely to get hold of in the US but am sure there must be similar companies offering similar products where you are.

All the best and I hope Shadow is on the mend very soon. X

 

[mudpuppymama]

Hi Tere

So sorry to hear Shadow is still not better, it sounds like a really tough time for you both :frown2:

I keep reading your post and then wimping out on replying as I know food issues can get people pretty emotional on here! But just in case this does help at all am going to brave it and post:

Flo was a fussy eater and I tried various different kibbles, then freeze dried and finally (after lots of raving from other dog walkers in the park) raw. I've got a bit lost with all the posts over whether Shadow has an upset tummy because he is poorly or because he has a sensitive tummy. What I can say from feeding Flo raw is that she is happier with what goes in and I am happier with what comes out:smile2: On raw her poo is quite solid and has the nice benefit of being virtually fragrance free!

I'm not suggesting you should put Shadow on raw, especially at the moment with everything else going on. And I also know traditional vets over here (UK) don't seem very keen on Raw feeding, I think perhaps because of salmonella risks and the like, but I thought it was worth a go and it suits us.

Reason I mention this is because I looked up on my food supplier's website (naturalinstinct.com) and their 'Special Diet' raw dog food has some good reviews from owners whose dogs have colitis, pancreatitis and IBS. They also offer a 'Pure' range which although not a complete balanced meal, so not suitable on it's own long term, might be useful in the short term for ruling out food allergies. This is a UK company so may be unlikely to get hold of in the US but am sure there must be similar companies offering similar products where you are.

All the best and I hope Shadow is on the mend very soon. X

Thank you for this post. It was beautifully put and no one should be offended by someone trying to be helpful and expressing their honest opinion.

 

[GoWithTheFlo]

Thank you for this post. It was beautifully put and no one should be offended by someone trying to be helpful and expressing their honest opinion.

Ah thank you mudpuppymama. Wasn't sure whether to post, so really appreciate your response. Xx

 

[mudpuppymama]

Ah thank you mudpuppymama. Wasn't sure whether to post, so really appreciate your response. Xx

I am a huge fan of raw feeding so always happy to hear when it works successfully for people. I wish more people would be willing to try it, especially when they are at the end of their rope trying to resolve digestive issues. So many commercial options these days make it very convenient too.

 

[EvaE1izabeth]

Food can definitely be controversial but I haven’t heard many vets really fight against raw food when it’s commercial. I don’t think they always love it, but it’s more accepted. Maybe this is local to me. The problem I notice is “raw” and “grain free” (and now “with grain”) have all become trends at one point or another so it’s a marketing point and many foods are often priced higher.

 

[GoWithTheFlo]

Food can definitely be controversial but I haven't heard many vets really fight against raw food when it's commercial. I don't think they always love it, but it's more accepted. Maybe this is local to me. The problem I notice is "raw" and "grain free" (and now "with grain") have all become trends at one point or another so it's a marketing point and many foods are often priced higher.

Definitely agree about "trends"! I tell you where I also notice this is with regards to feeding babies/toddlers/young children; whether it's breast feeding v formula, home made baby food v shop bought, feed peanuts to children or they will develop a nut allergy v don't feed peanuts to children or they will develop a nut allergy:Cry:

I think we definitely get targeted through our vulnerability over wanting to do 'what's best' for our families human or furry and marketing definitely plays on that.

As with most things in life there's going to be pros and cons to each, and we all just try to do what we think is the right thing. X

 

[mudpuppymama]

Definitely agree about "trends"! I tell you where I also notice this is with regards to feeding babies/toddlers/young children; whether it's breast feeding v formula, home made baby food v shop bought, feed peanuts to children or they will develop a nut allergy v don't feed peanuts to children or they will develop a nut allergy:Cry:

I think we definitely get targeted through our vulnerability over wanting to do 'what's best' for our families human or furry and marketing definitely plays on that.

As with most things in life there's going to be pros and cons to each, and we all just try to do what we think is the right thing. X

Great points! I think being open and willing to try things is important. And different things may work for different folks, but if you never try how do you know?

 

[itsgooby]

Like mudpuppymama and GoWithTheFlo, I am a big fan of feeding raw and I agree with all of their points on it. I do believe the major concern vets have is that of an unbalanced diet. My BIL for example was only feeding his Huskies a chicken leg quarter because he liked the idea of a species appropriate diet but it definitely wasn't balanced AT all. He now feeds kibble because going raw for 2 Huskies can get expensive and require time to prep and get educated on what a proper balanced raw diet looks like. So it is a matter of cost and convenience for him. My friend feeds her cat cooked chicken breast which is not a balanced meal - but she believes she is doing the right thing and it works for her. I don't judge her - she is doing the best she can and sees benefits over the canned food she was feeding him before.

We all want the best for our families and do the best we can. I am so sorry Shadow is experiencing issues, I cannot imagine how tough and expensive this must be! I pray you find a solution and treatment soon.

 

[JaJa]

Hand in there Tere🌹

Right before I read this thread I posted on another one with Mudpuppymama. I'm rifling through as much info as I can about raw diets. Two great websites are RawPetsRule and PerfectlyRawsome. YouTube has The Primal Pack series which is great! The videos are short, colorful and easy to follow, although I need to watch some again and take notes. I also like rawpetsrule.com
Before JoJo took another turn downward I was giving them a partially homemade diet and within a week Jodie's patches of dry scaled skin started healing. All of those references from Mudpuppymama address the need for balanced nutrition. That's why the species appropriate diet that itsgooby mentioned is also important. Boy do I remember raising babies/kids like GoWithTheFlow, everyone knows how to raise children better than you! I was not offended by your post either GoWithTheFlow.

 

[Kay O]

My hav had the puking all the time, diarrhea, high ALT and AST levels in blood tests. As a puppy she gurgled, puked clear sometimes and her food at other times, hiccuped, stomach rumbled loudly, diarrhea, and passed gas. FINALLY, her board certified internal medicine veterinarian diagnosed her with Irritable Bowel Disorder, IBD.

He put her on metronidazole and prednisone for 6 weeks. Afterwards she came off it and returned to her previous symptoms. Finally he changed her diet to novel protein diet Royal Canin Potato and Venison which is RX only. In addition she takes RX Reglan liquid every other day and the rotates that with 1/4 of a 5mg prednisone on the days she doesn’t take the Reglan.

 

[krandall]

Ah thank you mudpuppymama. Wasn't sure whether to post, so really appreciate your response. Xx

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with your post! <3