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Arf! Arf!
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It is my opinion that the people posting on this forum are just regular people and are not experts of any kind.
I agree with you. That is why it is so important that Havanese Forum serves as an educational site to further the knowledge base about Havanese (I learn something new almost every day on HF), guard against unethical breeders, and maintain the high standards of the Havanese breed.

We read what's on the AKC site and possibly assume that's accurate.
The better and only reference for accurate information on Havanese is HCA.
The breeder who stated she thought my little puppy might end up being 9 lbs was a guess, not a fact.
Your puppy may end up at 9 lbs. as an adult. It is really hard to tell at this point. We have several 9 lbs. adult Havanese on the Forum right now. But the HCA is silent on what the weight of a Havanese should be. I did post the entire HCA Havanese standard on HF last week to clear up any confusion. It is a good idea to read it carefully.
 
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I understand the inclination to clarify but it seems like saying “normal” in that context was intended to mean “not unhealthy” or “not concerning,” which is true regardless of standard for a pet Havanese.
 

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It is my opinion that the people posting on this forum are just regular people and are not experts of any kind. We read what's on the AKC site and possibly assume that's accurate.
Yes, why wouldn’t we?! I didn’t know for a long time that a lot of the information on the AKC site is inaccurate. Or that the AKC breeder listings are advertisements, and AKC breeding ethical guidelines are much lower than what most people would expect. It’s really kind of a mess. Fortunately, there is a lot of information here. Most of us are pet owners, but there are really experienced Havanese people as well. For me it’s worth the occasional internet drama (I really try to default to assuming it’s unintentional) because I learn a lot, and I think the more people that stick around, the better. We shouldn’t be filtering our posts or worried we’ll say something wrong because discussions lead to more information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Yes, why wouldn’t we?! I didn’t know for a long time that a lot of the information on the AKC site is inaccurate. Or that the AKC breeder listings are advertisements, and AKC breeding ethical guidelines are much lower than what most people would expect. It’s really kind of a mess. Fortunately, there is a lot of information here. Most of us are pet owners, but there are really experienced Havanese people as well. For me it’s worth the occasional internet drama (I really try to default to assuming it’s unintentional) because I learn a lot, and I think the more people that stick around, the better. We shouldn’t be filtering our posts or worried we’ll say something wrong because discussions lead to more information.
I agree with you. I probably should have let it go, but it felt kind of like an attack - against me for not knowing some of these things (first I'm hearing about AKC guidelines being lower), and against people like me, who just want to learn about the dog they have. If I chose the wrong breeder, it's too late now. I thought we researched the breeder but maybe not enough, who knows. Whatever weight Snazzle reaches is ok with me, as long as she's healthy.
I really appreciate your post. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I agree with you. That is why it is so important that Havanese Forum serves as an educational site to further the knowledge base about Havanese (I learn something new almost every day on HF), guard against unethical breeders, and maintain the high standards of the Havanese breed.
As far as I'm concerned you can post educational information regarding the Havanese breed all over the forum (are you an expert? If not, be careful to post facts, not opinions), but I don't need a lecture because my dog may be smaller than most Havanese.


The better and only reference for accurate information on Havanese is HCA.
Good to know.

Your puppy may end up at 9 lbs. as an adult. It is really hard to tell at this point. We have several 9 lbs. adult Havanese on the Forum right now. But the HCA is silent on what the weight of a Havanese should be. I did post the entire HCA Havanese standard on HF last week to clear up any confusion. It is a good idea to read it carefully.
As I said above, I don't need a lecture from you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Wow! That is all I can say...No wonder there is not too many old timers on this forum.... If I was new, and after such welcome, I doubt I would post again..

I will bow out of this forum...
I wouldn't leave the forum because of one rude person. I'm going to wait and see how it goes from here on out.
Thanks for posting!
 

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Owned by a Havallon
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I wouldn't leave the forum because of one rude person. I'm going to wait and see how it goes from here on out.
Thanks for posting!
Please hang in there. I almost left a few times myself. It is worth sticking around though. People who are very passionate about something can sometimes come across harsh in ways they do not mean. Snazzle is a doll whether she has something else in her or not, whether intentional, or by accident as was the case with my Mia. My other dog is a puppy mill dog, best dog in the world. It is an imperfect world. I wish you the best with your awesome little dog and hope you post often as she grows up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Please hang in there. I almost left a few times myself. It is worth sticking around though. People who are very passionate about something can sometimes come across harsh in ways they do not mean. Snazzle is a doll whether she has something else in her or not, whether intentional, or by accident as was the case with my Mia. My other dog is a puppy mill dog, best dog in the world. It is an imperfect world. I wish you the best with your awesome little dog and hope you post often as she grows up.
Thank you. I plan to remain and see what I can learn. Passionate people should post their views on separate posts, not in response to innocent statements. Anyway, I agree about Snazzle. She's here now and we'll do our best for her.
Thanks again for posting your support.
 

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I’m so sorry I posted incorrect information! The AKC is the largest registration of purebred dogs, so it’s only to assume it’s accurate.
Again so sorry! :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I’m so sorry I posted incorrect information! The AKC is the largest registration of purebred dogs, so it’s only to assume it’s accurate.
Again so sorry! :(
You did not cause a problem, don't worry. I assumed it was accurate, too, and I'm still wondering why it isn't. Thanks for your posts.
 

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Thank you. I plan to remain and see what I can learn. Passionate people should post their views on separate posts, not in response to innocent statements. Anyway, I agree about Snazzle. She's here now and we'll do our best for her.
Thanks again for posting your support.
Yes, no one should be attacked for expressing opinions or sharing information, or for anything!
 

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I truly feel that no one meant anything negative or that it was meant as an attack. I think the confusion comes from not being able to read body language and facial expressions on forums or social media. Please, please don't hold what felt like an attack against anyone and stay with the forum. It's really a great group of people.
 

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Arf! Arf!
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Wow! That is all I can say...No wonder there is not too many old timers on this forum.... If I was new, and after such welcome, I doubt I would post again..

I will bow out of this forum...
As I said above, I don't need a lecture from you.
I wouldn't leave the forum because of one rude person.
Passionate people should post their views on separate posts, not in response to innocent statements.
**
Yes, no one should be attacked for expressing opinions or sharing information, or for anything!
Thank you for your support.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I truly feel that no one meant anything negative or that it was meant as an attack. I think the confusion comes from not being able to read body language and facial expressions on forums or social media. Please, please don't hold what felt like an attack against anyone and stay with the forum. It's really a great group of people.
I don't think it was meant as an attack, really. I do feel it was inappropriate and so, while I don't hold anything against anyone, I will say my piece when addressed.
Thanks very much.
 

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Yes, why wouldn’t we?! I didn’t know for a long time that a lot of the information on the AKC site is inaccurate. Or that the AKC breeder listings are advertisements, and AKC breeding ethical guidelines are much lower than what most people would expect. It’s really kind of a mess. Fortunately, there is a lot of information here. Most of us are pet owners, but there are really experienced Havanese people as well. For me it’s worth the occasional internet drama (I really try to default to assuming it’s unintentional) because I learn a lot, and I think the more people that stick around, the better. We shouldn’t be filtering our posts or worried we’ll say something wrong because discussions lead to more information.
Please hang in there. I almost left a few times myself. It is worth sticking around though. People who are very passionate about something can sometimes come across harsh in ways they do not mean. Snazzle is a doll whether she has something else in her or not, whether intentional, or by accident as was the case with my Mia. My other dog is a puppy mill dog, best dog in the world. It is an imperfect world. I wish you the best with your awesome little dog and hope you post often as she grows up.
I truly feel that no one meant anything negative or that it was meant as an attack. I think the confusion comes from not being able to read body language and facial expressions on forums or social media. Please, please don't hold what felt like an attack against anyone and stay with the forum. It's really a great group of people.
Have been keep quiet hoping things might blow over, but now I feel like I have been fence sitting a bit🙈

Agree with the sentiment in these posts I’ve quoted😘.

Popi I hope I am not being presumptuous speaking on your behalf, but Popi is a nice welcoming guy and I’m sure he would have posted any information with the purpose of spreading knowledge as in ‘facts’ and not meant in any way as a slight.

Nancy from your very first posts about Snazzle it has been lovely to see how excited you are about your lovely girl, and it’s lovely to be a part of that😊😊 so please do stay.

You both seem to embody what this forum is all about which is the passion (yes I am totally plagiarising mudpuppymama🤣) for our dogs. Am sure there will be lots of things you will both go to agree on in the future…although am really hoping that the first example won’t be telling me to bugger off and mind my on business, as I like you both😂😘
 

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I have been on the forum for awhile and I too, have thought about leaving at times due to the way certain responses to posts have made me feel. I decided to stay and try to have a thicker skin and not to take things so personally. I do feel we should all take a step back and think about how we are wording our responses to people and how the way you put things in writing can make people feel.
 

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Okay thank you! It’s just that I don’t want to cause any of this... And, of course, I don’t want to spread false information because that stuff spreads like wildfire.
Yes that’s true and we are hyper aware of it because of covid. But this is a complicated issue that has to be addressed in many different ways. Discouraging open discussion in an attempt to manage potential misinformation is misguided, and I don’t think anyone did anything wrong. The information has been clarified and that’s what matters. It was more a tone that could be interpreted negatively, and was most likely unintended. I’ve done it myself, and it’s easy to miss what people mean when they say something that can be interpreted many ways. There have been times when I have been certain that remarks were passive aggressive and I chose to not take them that way, and times when tone seemed sharp but was clearly intended to be helpful, and times when I lost my patience online even though I wouldn’t have in person, and that applies in most places online. Facebook is a million times worse, IMO. Sometimes when I’m in a hurry and I am excited about something that worked for me I write in a manner that seems to be telling someone what to do instead of telling them why it worked for me, and I usually regret that later, even though I don’t care when other people do that at all.

I have never really understood why the AKC information is inaccurate. I don’t know if it’s just that they don’t have someone verifying the information they share online or details have been lost as they contract with website designers and writers. I have wondered if inaccuracies come up at other times, too. It seems like it would be pretty easy to copy and paste directly from the Havanese club. But the more I learn about the AKC, the more I realize I had this idea of a protective organization that doesn’t, and maybe couldn’t, really exist. It is what it is.
 

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But the more I learn about the AKC, the more I realize I had this idea of a protective organization that doesn’t, and maybe couldn’t, really exist. It is what it is.
This. People tend to think AKC has a lot more "power" than they have. Think of the man behind the curtain in the "Wizard of Oz". They have an office in NY with not a ton of staff. That staff was cut DRAMATICALLY during Covid.

If you think the website is bad NOW, you should have seen the "old" version. THIS iteration (new as of, I think, three years ago or so, is a breath of fresh air. But they did just farm it out to some web designer, probably the lowest bidder, who knew nothing or very litter about dogs, and said, "get'er dun". There BIGGEST goal was to make it more "pet-owner friendly". accuracy was not on the top of their wish list.

As fairly a regular user, I have to say SOME things are WAY easier than they used to be. It is REALLY nice that you can do all registration work online these days. That makes things SO much easier than the "old days".

You'll find out more accurate information about Havanese on this Forum than on the AKC website.
 
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