Havanese Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,
Like many first time "want to be" puppy owners, I am feeling overwhelmed by all the information, advice, and warnings out there about finding the right Havanese breeder.
The list of red flags is a long one. Is it possible to find a breeder with zero red flags? What is the most important look-for in a breeder?
Any feedback or recommendations greatly appreciated!
 

·
Metrowest, MA
Joined
·
31,792 Posts
It is DEFINITELY possible to find breeders without "red flags". But I guess maybe it depends on what you re calling red flags. What is worrying you about the breed(s) you are considering currently?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
I agree with Karen. Yes, it's definitely possible to find a reputable breeder without red flags. But a little insight on what you consider red flags and how you're going about finding a breeder would be helpful in answering your questions. When I was looking, I did my research on the breeders. Health testing was important to me and I needed to be able to confirm the testing myself. The two breeders I got my Havanese from had as many questions for me as I did them and that was important. Many of their questions were answered in the applications I had to fill out before we actually talked. I was also able to look at the lineage of the parents and do a little research before I even approached the breeder with information that I found online. I looked at many different aspects. I saw a few breeders out there that seemed quite reputable at first but there were little things that made me uncomfortable so I simply kept looking. I saw a lot of breeders that weren't worth a second glance. Most of those were ones that always seemed to have puppies that were available right away. I did luck out with my Oliver and found him when he was available right away but the circumstances surrounding that were kind of a "right place at the right time" scenario.
 

·
Metrowest, MA
Joined
·
31,792 Posts
I also want to say that the "Covid rush" seems to have slowed down. I am not saying you can go out and pick up a Havanese of any street corner. It has never been that way, and it shouldn't be for dogs being bred responsibly. But There seems to be a steady stream of puppies being produced, with reasonable wit times to get one at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Montgomery26

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for your feedback.

The positives about the breeder: many years experience showing and breeding, CKC member, Havanese Fanciers recognized club member, very knowledgable about the breed, was able to visit the pups at seven weeks (outside on blanket). Verbal confirmation that pups have been chipped and have had first set of shots (though husband couldn't feel the chip). Told that they visited the vet two days ago for their first set of shots and are in "perfect" health. Verbal confirmation that should there be a health problem with the pup, I can return it and get my money back.
The negatives: Due to continuing prevalence of Covid here, wasn't able to see where the pups lived or meet parents. No evidence that a paper contract or proof of clean bill of health will be provided. The female pup I'm looking at seems small (not sure of weight), passive, and a little lethargic compared to male from same litter.

I know this breeder is respected in the Havanese community. However, he is elderly and perhaps not as able as he once was to properly care for this litter, or follow through with necessary paperwork. I was told that this was the first litter for this dam and sire, but as mentioned above, I wasn't able to meet the parents of these pups or to see the other dogs.

Of course, my heart just wants to "rescue" these pups (or at least one of them), but I'm in my sixties and don't want to find myself in a situation I can't handle financially or otherwise.

I already know that I will be told to walk away. :cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,355 Posts
Thank you for your feedback.

The positives about the breeder: many years experience showing and breeding, CKC member, Havanese Fanciers recognized club member, very knowledgable about the breed, was able to visit the pups at seven weeks (outside on blanket). Verbal confirmation that pups have been chipped and have had first set of shots (though husband couldn't feel the chip). Told that they visited the vet two days ago for their first set of shots and are in "perfect" health. Verbal confirmation that should there be a health problem with the pup, I can return it and get my money back.
The negatives: Due to continuing prevalence of Covid here, wasn't able to see where the pups lived or meet parents. No evidence that a paper contract or proof of clean bill of health will be provided. The female pup I'm looking at seems small (not sure of weight), passive, and a little lethargic compared to male from same litter.

I know this breeder is respected in the Havanese community. However, he is elderly and perhaps not as able as he once was to properly care for this litter, or follow through with necessary paperwork. I was told that this was the first litter for this dam and sire, but as mentioned above, I wasn't able to meet the parents of these pups or to see the other dogs.

Of course, my heart just wants to "rescue" these pups (or at least one of them), but I'm in my sixties and don't want to find myself in a situation I can't handle financially or otherwise.

I already know that I will be told to walk away. :cry:
Has the breeder registered and shared (with you) the parents health certifications (there's a lot of posts about what to check) - so you can check them online? If they haven't - haven't done them or haven't been willing to share them, that would be a flag for sure.

I understand COVID precautions, but not sure why you could meet the pups but not the parent(s)? I would be ok if the father wasn't there (after all, not everyone owns both parents and Dad might live somewhere else), but I don't understand why you couldn't meet the mom?

I wouldn't find the "he's elderly and might not be able to do the paperwork" satisfactory - especially if he's choosing to breed a brand-new set of parents for the first time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Has the breeder registered and shared (with you) the parents health certifications (there's a lot of posts about what to check) - so you can check them online? If they haven't - haven't done them or haven't been willing to share them, that would be a flag for sure.

I understand COVID precautions, but not sure why you could meet the pups but not the parent(s)? I would be ok if the father wasn't there (after all, not everyone owns both parents and Dad might live somewhere else), but I don't understand why you couldn't meet the mom?

I wouldn't find the "he's elderly and might not be able to do the paperwork" satisfactory - especially if he's choosing to breed a brand-new set of parents for the first time.
Thank you for your insights. I will find out whether the parents' health certifications could be made available to me online.
 

·
Metrowest, MA
Joined
·
31,792 Posts
Thank you for your insights. I will find out whether the parents' health certifications could be made available to me online.
They should be registered with OFA, although I know that not all Canadian breeders do that.

I would CERTAINLY not buy a puppy without a WRITTEN contract up front, that you can read at your leisure and ask questions about if you have any.

The fac that you can't feel the chip is not surprising. Unless they used the "old fashioned" large chips, you WOULDN'T be able to feel the chip, and even with THOSE chips, I can only feel it in one of my three dogs that have the large chip. That is a simple thing to add to the contract. If, when examined by your vet when you get the puppy home, the vet cannot find a working chip, the cost of implanting a new chip falls to the breeder. (though it is really not a lot of money) Then just have your vet run a chip reader over the puppy to find and read it.

I WEOULD insist on being able to meet the mother., either with or without the pups. Sometimes the mother is distracted and not interested in people when she is worried about herpups. But they can always trade off, leaving the pups inside and bringing mom out to meet you and vice versa.

Some pups are quieter than others, and 2 days after shots, especially at that young age, she could still have been a bit under the weather from her sots. You should ask if she just tends to be a quieter puppy. Some people like quieter puppies. Was she just "quiet" or "shy"? There is a big difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They should be registered with OFA, although I know that not all Canadian breeders do that.

I would CERTAINLY not buy a puppy without a WRITTEN contract up front, that you can read at your leisure and ask questions about if you have any.

The fac that you can't feel the chip is not surprising. Unless they used the "old fashioned" large chips, you WOULDN'T be able to feel the chip, and even with THOSE chips, I can only feel it in one of my three dogs that have the large chip. That is a simple thing to add to the contract. If, when examined by your vet when you get the puppy home, the vet cannot find a working chip, the cost of implanting a new chip falls to the breeder. (though it is really not a lot of money) Then just have your vet run a chip reader over the puppy to find and read it.

I WEOULD insist on being able to meet the mother., either with or without the pups. Sometimes the mother is distracted and not interested in people when she is worried about herpups. But they can always trade off, leaving the pups inside and bringing mom out to meet you and vice versa.

Some pups are quieter than others, and 2 days after shots, especially at that young age, she could still have been a bit under the weather from her sots. You should ask if she just tends to be a quieter puppy. Some people like quieter puppies. Was she just "quiet" or "shy"? There is a big difference.
Thank you. This is helpful information.
 

·
Metrowest, MA
Joined
·
31,792 Posts
Am I allowed to post the name of the breeder and ask if anyone has had any positive or negative experiences?
Sure! Although you may find that some people prefer to reply to you privately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I would like to know the name of the breeder too - out of curiosity...

And I'd just like to also mention that if the breeder can go through the hassle of having pups, they can go through the lesser hassle of filing out paperwork.

And yes, you'd want to meet at least one of the parents.
Last thing, I'd look up the bloodlines/pedigrees of the sire and the dam on the havanese gallery site Havanese Gallery - Havanese pedigree database :: Havanese pictures
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
It is DEFINITELY possible to find breeders without "red flags". But I guess maybe it depends on what you re calling red flags. What is worrying you about the breed(s) you are considering currently?
I went through breeders listed on the AKC site. They list what they do and have recommendations from past customers. It worked great for us, we got one from a breeder in Southern Connecticut and we live in Southern Maine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would like to know the name of the breeder too - out of curiosity...

And I'd just like to also mention that if the breeder can go through the hassle of having pups, they can go through the lesser hassle of filing out paperwork.

And yes, you'd want to meet at least one of the parents.
Last thing, I'd look up the bloodlines/pedigrees of the sire and the dam on the havanese gallery site Havanese Gallery - Havanese pedigree database :: Havanese pictures
The name of the breeder is Joanna Swayze.
The dam and sire of these pups are not on the gallery site, though there are two from Everspring on there from years ago.
I have now seen pictures of the parents and I have been sent photos of the breeder's applications for the OFA database (hip/elbow dysplasia, patellar luxation, and congenital cardiac). However, when I visit the site, I do not see the data for the dogs. The breeder has been open with me about not being able to get to a veterinary opthamologist prior to the litter being born. No other tests have been mentioned.
The breeder has now provided me with a written contract including a brief health report on the pup and the name of the vet she used.
Still feeling wary not being able to find the information about the parents, also that their eyes and ears were not thoroughly checked prior to breeding.
Welcome any thoughts/advice
 

·
Metrowest, MA
Joined
·
31,792 Posts
The name of the breeder is Joanna Swayze.
The dam and sire of these pups are not on the gallery site, though there are two from Everspring on there from years ago.
I have now seen pictures of the parents and I have been sent photos of the breeder's applications for the OFA database (hip/elbow dysplasia, patellar luxation, and congenital cardiac). However, when I visit the site, I do not see the data for the dogs. The breeder has been open with me about not being able to get to a veterinary opthamologist prior to the litter being born. No other tests have been mentioned.
The breeder has now provided me with a written contract including a brief health report on the pup and the name of the vet she used.
Still feeling wary not being able to find the information about the parents, also that their eyes and ears were not thoroughly checked prior to breeding.
Welcome any thoughts/advice
Sorry, I don't know anything about them. Eyes should be done annually, so "not being able to get to an ophthalmologist before the litter" is a VERY poor excuse. They just haven't done eyes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
The name of the breeder is Joanna Swayze.
The dam and sire of these pups are not on the gallery site, though there are two from Everspring on there from years ago.
I have now seen pictures of the parents and I have been sent photos of the breeder's applications for the OFA database (hip/elbow dysplasia, patellar luxation, and congenital cardiac). However, when I visit the site, I do not see the data for the dogs. The breeder has been open with me about not being able to get to a veterinary opthamologist prior to the litter being born. No other tests have been mentioned.
The breeder has now provided me with a written contract including a brief health report on the pup and the name of the vet she used.
Still feeling wary not being able to find the information about the parents, also that their eyes and ears were not thoroughly checked prior to breeding.
Welcome any thoughts/advice
Eye testing certification is good for 12 months so the breeder had plenty of time to get eyes done. And there are usually plenty of places for testing. Also many clubs run various health clinics at shows. And most reputable breeders won’t let you use their dog for stud if the testing is not up to date. Check with your national club and see what testing they recommend.

For instance the Havanese Club of America requires breeding dogs have a CHIC number from OFA. That means at minimum, the testing to be done is eyes, patellas and hips. Hips can’t be done till the dog is two so you know both parents are not babies themselves.

Look up the breed standard. Some things can be seen very early, such as eye color and pigment. Havanese are required to have brown eyes and black or dark brown pigment.
When you pick up your pup the breeder should give you a copy of the pups registration, copies of health certificates for both parent, and a record of vaccination and worming for the pups. Some places require that pups not be sold without a vet certificate so know what laws are in your area. Good luck.
 

·
Metrowest, MA
Joined
·
31,792 Posts
Eye testing certification is good for 12 months so the breeder had plenty of time to get eyes done. And there are usually plenty of places for testing. Also many clubs run various health clinics at shows. And most reputable breeders won’t let you use their dog for stud if the testing is not up to date. Check with your national club and see what testing they recommend.

For instance the Havanese Club of America requires breeding dogs have a CHIC number from OFA. That means at minimum, the testing to be done is eyes, patellas and hips. Hips can’t be done till the dog is two so you know both parents are not babies themselves.

Look up the breed standard. Some things can be seen very early, such as eye color and pigment. Havanese are required to have brown eyes and black or dark brown pigment.
When you pick up your pup the breeder should give you a copy of the pups registration, copies of health certificates for both parent, and a record of vaccination and worming for the pups. Some places require that pups not be sold without a vet certificate so know what laws are in your area. Good luck.
I would agree with all of this except the copy of the registration. Some breeders, including myself, do this on line, and can send the owner home with a printed copy of the registration because I finalize it at the kitchen counter, when they pay me for the puppy. Many breeders, for a number of valid reasons, choose to do it by mail, or can't do it at the moment the puppy is packed up. NO breeder is going to register the puppy in the new owner's name before being paid, and few owners are going to want to pay for their puppy before pick-up. So it is a bit of a catch-22.

GENERALLY, you should get a copy of your CONTRACT, signed by both parties at the time of pick-up, and copies of the PARENT's registrations/pedigrees and the other information you have listed. Many breeders provide much more in their puppy packets. SOME breeders will be able to hand you your finalized registration that day. IF not, you should at least get a copy of the application form. Some breeders actually leave it up to the new owner to register the puppy because they do not want the (minor) expense of doing it themselves. I want ALL of my puppies registered, so do it myself, at my expense. I have the litter pre-registered, and only fill in the last details and complete the transaction when the new owners are with me and pay me the balance on their pup. I also sign them up for the free one month of AKC health insurance to tide them over until they get their own health insurance in place. It's not great, but better than nothing!

And of course ALL of this is based on AKC. I have no idea how CKC operates or whether it is possible to register them on line on the day of sale.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top