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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hi Karen, that was very kind of you - thanks for getting your vet friend’s input. Im happy to know both yours and hers thoughts on this. I had read a couple articles where they discussed 16 weeks being the sweet spot for lifelong immunity but it sounds like we didn’t get so lucky. I don’t mind boostering him now that I know what his levels are. He’s also a hefty 12.75 pounds and I feel much better about it then I did when he was teeny tiny. Thanks again and god bless.
 

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Hi Karen, that was very kind of you - thanks for getting your vet friend’s input. Im happy to know both yours and hers thoughts on this. I had read a couple articles where they discussed 16 weeks being the sweet spot for lifelong immunity but it sounds like we didn’t get so lucky. I don’t mind boostering him now that I know what his levels are. He’s also a hefty 12.75 pounds and I feel much better about it then I did when he was teeny tiny. Thanks again and god bless.
Yes, it is POSSIBLE to get a good immune response to a single dose, but, honestly, that’s not the way these vaccines were designed to work. Like MANY vaccines, the first dose shows the body what to look out for, and the SECOND dose tells the body to build the army. In the case of puppy shots, the reason they have MORE doses is to try to get as early immunity as possible around the mother’s waning antibodies from nursing. Dams stop nursing their pups at WILDLY varying times… from as early as 3-4 weeks to as late as… Panda, who was still lnursing the pups as their new owners picked them up! LOL! So the vaccine creators had to try to cover puppies born in puppy mills who would be weaned at 3 weeks and sold to a pet store at 6 weeks, as well as those who were carefully raised and nursed by their dams until much later. Those of us who believe in minimal vaccines generally try to avoid those early hits that normally are not effective anyway (because of the mom’s antibodies) That’s why most breeders give puppies that first shot before the puppy leaves for their new home, at 9 weeks, and then send the puppy home at 10 weeks. That way, they have at least some protection, and are boostered again a few weeks later.

Honestly, I would never advise anyone to wait until 16 weeks for a first Distemper Parvo vaccine. Both distemper and parvo are deadly, and parvo is EVERYWHERE. Early socialization is SO critical. It is THE most critical part of raising a young dog, IMO, and to have a young puppy out in the world without some protection against these diseases is not something I would feel comfortable with. It’s like playing Russian Roulette.

I’m glad it has worked out “OK” for you, in that Ernie has remained healthy though this period. But I wouldn’t suggest this for most people. The consequesnces are just too dire. You could, at worst, end up with a dead puppy, or at best with HUGE beterinary bills trying to save the life of a puppy who contracts either of these diseases.
 
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I thought Mama Mills was hoping the titers would be high enough to avoid a second shot. I seem to remember the breeder working with her in some way, either to wait to do the first set of vaccinations or picking up her puppy later so that his first shots weren’t at 8 weeks, but still a while ago.
 

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I thought Mama Mills was hoping the titers would be high enough to avoid a second shot. I seem to remember the breeder working with her in some way, either to wait to do the first set of vaccinations or picking up her puppy later so that his first shots weren’t at 8 weeks, but still a while ago.
She said his first shot was at 16 weeks. So he went unvaccinated for an awfully long time. That means either keeping the puppy home all that time, or taking a pretty big risk during that period.

The problem with giving shots at 8 weeks is twofold. First, you are giving a vaccine in the middle of a fear period... not ideal Second, it is common for the mother's antibodies not to have worn off, That means that not only is the vaccine likely to be less effective, but it is also MORE likely that the puppy will have side effects to the vaccine if given during that period. That's why most Havanese breeders prefer to give the first vaccine at 9 weeks, and send the puppies home at 10 weeks. Gets them past that fear period, AND into a safer point for that first vaccine, while still giving the family lots of time for socialization during the sensitive period.
 
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I thought Mama Mills was hoping the titers would be high enough to avoid a second shot. I seem to remember the breeder working with her in some way, either to wait to do the first set of vaccinations or picking up her puppy later so that his first shots weren’t at 8 weeks, but still a while ago.
I can completely understand not wanting his first shot at 8 weeks... And yes, I know she was trying to avoid a second shot. I don't personally think it's a great idea though, unless you can titer much sooner. These aren't disease to play around with, and you NEED to get your puppies out there and socializing/acclimating.

Water under the dam now, though! He's healthy and safe, and she can get him boostered now. It's just not a course I think other people should try. I am ALL for following a limited vaccine protocol. But not to the point of risking your pup's safety.
 
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Okay that makes sense, I misunderstood the timing. I think a more isolated covid puppy probably wasn’t at risk, but I get what you’re saying for the sake of other people planning. Like me, so I appreciate the clarification :)

The problem is even a "Covid puppy" isn't isolated enough from these diseases unless you are, literally, keeping them in your house and never letting them on the ground outdoors. Both of these diseases can be picked up off the ground. You do NOT need direct dog-dog contact. And hopefully, even during Covid, people were/are getting their puppies out and socializing/acclimating at a distance, watching cars go by, watching masked people at a distance, etc. If not, people need to reach out. There are LOTS of ways to help puppies acclimate and stills tay safe from Covid. I am STILL pretty much "living the bubble life" and Ducky is STILL getting socialized! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Yes I fully understood the risk of delaying his vaccinations. He was only on the ground outside in our backyard. When out socializing he was ALWAYS held or in the Sherpa bag 100% of the time, never on the ground. I was extremely diligent. I realize this isn’t advisable or the safest route and I’m not saying I would do it again but under our circumstances it worked out. As I’ve mentioned he didn’t get all the socialization he needed but I don’t think having him vaccinated earlier would have changed that outcome in our particular situation (wintertime pandemic puppy). But like Karen said he’s perfectly safe and healthy and we are still chipping away at socialization every day.
 

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I didn’t really think of puppies from this year as covid puppies, even though of course they are! I didn’t intend to imply that covid puppies are at less risk for those illnesses if their family is isolated. I meant that it’s not something to retroactively worry about, especially those early 2020 puppies that may have been off schedule.

I didn’t realize Ernie and Ducky are close in age! I think I’ve reached the same point with puppies I have with my friends’ children, where age and time have become distorted.
 
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