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I understand there is some controversy over the lepto vaccine but don't know why. Can someone please tell me what the problem is? Are there other vaccines my new puppy should not receive.
I have no control over the first doses of vaccines administered to my puppy, which will be given to him by the breeder's vet. But I understand I have to submit the pup to two other rounds of vaccines. I suppose rabies vax is a must, but am sketchy about the others. Thanks.
 

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I understand there is some controversy over the lepto vaccine but don't know why. Can someone please tell me what the problem is? Are there other vaccines my new puppy should not receive.
I have no control over the first doses of vaccines administered to my puppy, which will be given to him by the breeder's vet. But I understand I have to submit the pup to two other rounds of vaccines. I suppose rabies vax is a must, but am sketchy about the others. Thanks.
Your puppy will only receive "puppy vaccines" from the breeder's vet. They will not likely include Lepto. (though they COULD if your breeder is careless and allows the vet to use the 5 way) AT MOST your puppy will have received two puppy vaccines. MOST Havanese breeders use the Jean Dodd's minimal vaccine protocol, meaning that your puppy will have received ONE does, at 9 weeks (or close to that age) If possible, the breeder will try to find a vet who will use distemper and parvo ONLY, though in some areas that is very difficult, and the addition of infectious hepatitis and parainfluenza.This vaccine is called "DHPP". This is not a huge problem, though I choose to avoid it for my puppies.

You will then need to take your puppy back for a second distemper/parvo (or DHPP) shoot, and them a third Parvo ONLY shot. Rabies is COMPLETELY separate, and should be given COMPLETELY separately, AT LEAST TWO WEEKS away from these other vaccinations, and as late as it is allowed by your state/local government. For me, in MA, that is 6 months, but alas, some states require it at 4 months. 馃槬

Here is Dr. Dodds' most recent update of the vaccine protocol. (which added the extra dose of Parvo vaccine when a more virulent strain was found circulating)

Dog Carnivore Dog breed Companion dog Font


BUT, I wanted to add that every breeder worth their salt will also go over all of this with you, and will probably also send this information home with you in your "puppy packet!" ;) They have put a tremendous amount of love, time and effort into these puppies, and the LAST thing they want is for you to take them home and do them harm! Your breeder should always be your first source for this sort of information! 馃挄
 
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Someone mentioned Rabies vaccines with mercury in them. Maggie will be getting her rabies vax May 31. I called the vet and they said they use the
zoetis vanguard. Thoughts or info?
 

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Someone mentioned Rabies vaccines with mercury in them. Maggie will be getting her rabies vax May 31. I called the vet and they said they use the
zoetis vanguard. Thoughts or info?
Go to the manufacturer's website and read the ingredients. I'm surprised they couldn't just tell you, but you can read it yourself what preservative (if any) is used in it. If it's not clear, you can call the company.

Doing a VERY Quick internet delve, it looks like it does contain thimerisol. The two that quickly came up that do not are Merial and Fort Dodge. I am lucky because I work with a vet that is on top of that stuff.

NOW... How important that is? I'm not positive. It is a really small amount, and after the first two doses (one year apart) your dog will only be exposed to this every 3 years. It is not like an annual flu shot. I would PREFER to avoid it, but in DOGS, from what I have read, there is no indication that mercury is building up in the hair from thimerisol. HOWEVER, it seems that 50% of dogs that receive vaccines with thimerisol DO have some amount of localized irritation from the injection itself. So it's not something you'd want to do often. And it is contraindicated for cats, who are prone to developing a type of cancer after Rabies injections with thimerisol. (possible, but MUCH less likely in dogs) That is why the injection is always given in a hind leg in cats. So if a cancer does develop, the limb can be removed and the cat's life saved. My vet actually administers it in the same place for dogs as well, just to be very safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Your puppy will only receive "puppy vaccines" from the breeder's vet. They will not likely include Lepto. (though they COULD if your breeder is careless and allows the vet to use the 5 way) AT MOST your puppy will have received two puppy vaccines. MOST Havanese breeders use the Jean Dodd's minimal vaccine protocol, meaning that your puppy will have received ONE does, at 9 weeks (or close to that age) If possible, the breeder will try to find a vet who will use distemper and parvo ONLY, though in some areas that is very difficult, and the addition of infectious hepatitis and parainfluenza.This vaccine is called "DHPP". This is not a huge problem, though I choose to avoid it for my puppies.

You will then need to take your puppy back for a second distemper/parvo (or DHPP) shoot, and them a third Parvo ONLY shot. Rabies is COMPLETELY separate, and should be given COMPLETELY separately, AT LEAST TWO WEEKS away from these other vaccinations, and as late as it is allowed by your state/local government. For me, in MA, that is 6 months, but alas, some states require it at 4 months. 馃槬

Here is Dr. Dodds' most recent update of the vaccine protocol. (which added the extra dose of Parvo vaccine when a more virulent strain was found circulating)

View attachment 177830

BUT, I wanted to add that every breeder worth their salt will also go over all of this with you, and will probably also send this information home with you in your "puppy packet!" ;) They have put a tremendous amount of love, time and effort into these puppies, and the LAST thing they want is for you to take them home and do them harm! Your breeder should always be your first source for this sort of information! 馃挄
Thanks. Very helpful!
 

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I guess I don't know what ingredients to look for, other than mercury. Thimerosal is something bad? I am not familiar with that. Is there a website that you know of that says what ingredients to stay away from in a rabies vaccine?
Thank you
 

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I guess I don't know what ingredients to look for, other than mercury. Thimerosal is something bad? I am not familiar with that. Is there a website that you know of that says what ingredients to stay away from in a rabies vaccine?
Thank you
That is the ingredient that contains the mercury. It is a preservative. You want a Thimerisol free vaccine if possible. They are often marked "TF".
 
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I think any controversy has more to do with Lepto being included in core vaccines. It really should be a separate decision made with the vet based on individual risk factors.The difference is that the vaccine has side affects, it鈥檚 treatable, and depending on the region and lifestyle they may not be exposed to it. Initially our vet was pretty neutral about it, gave us the info and explained the risks and left it up to us. Interestingly, in more recent visits the vet didn鈥檛 recommend it for Sundance. He spends most of his time indoors, he doesn鈥檛 really travel, and when he鈥檚 outside he鈥檚 not on trails or off leash, or in/drinking from outdoor water sources. Someone with a more active outdoor lifestyle in a different region might feel differently about it, but I still think it should be given separately. Sundance did have it one time as a puppy and while he didn鈥檛 have a severe reaction, it affected him more than any of his other vaccines.
 

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I think any controversy has more to do with Lepto being included in core vaccines. It really should be a separate decision made with the vet based on individual risk factors.The difference is that the vaccine has side affects, it鈥檚 treatable, and depending on the region and lifestyle they may not be exposed to it. Initially our vet was pretty neutral about it, gave us the info and explained the risks and left it up to us. Interestingly, in more recent visits the vet didn鈥檛 recommend it for Sundance. He spends most of his time indoors, he doesn鈥檛 really travel, and when he鈥檚 outside he鈥檚 not on trails or off leash, or in/drinking from outdoor water sources. Someone with a more active outdoor lifestyle in a different region might feel differently about it, but I still think it should be given separately. Sundance did have it one time as a puppy and while he didn鈥檛 have a severe reaction, it affected him more than any of his other vaccines.
Exactly. Any vaccine CAN have side effects, but Lepto is not considered a "core" vaccine, and therefore should be given separately, and IF it makes sense for that particular dog. If I had a Labrador who was prone to gettin into swamps on every walk? Yeah, I'd probably want him to have Lepto on board. BUT, I STILL wouldn't want it combined with the other vaccines. I would STILL want it given separately, so I could watch for and respond to reactions.
 
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I think any controversy has more to do with Lepto being included in core vaccines. It really should be a separate decision made with the vet based on individual risk factors.The difference is that the vaccine has side affects, it鈥檚 treatable, and depending on the region and lifestyle they may not be exposed to it. Initially our vet was pretty neutral about it, gave us the info and explained the risks and left it up to us. Interestingly, in more recent visits the vet didn鈥檛 recommend it for Sundance. He spends most of his time indoors, he doesn鈥檛 really travel, and when he鈥檚 outside he鈥檚 not on trails or off leash, or in/drinking from outdoor water sources. Someone with a more active outdoor lifestyle in a different region might feel differently about it, but I still think it should be given separately. Sundance did have it one time as a puppy and while he didn鈥檛 have a severe reaction, it affected him more than any of his other vaccines.
I haven't given Perry lepto since we've been back in the US (and traveling to Kenya - it's not a requirement here) but he did get it annually while we were living in Kampala (as part of the DHLPP because that was the requirement and I couldn't risk the state vet not accepting it because it was all separated) - we had no problem. I titered for distemper and parvo and they're fine. When DHLPP is not a requirement I don't feel the need to give the lepto to Perry - even though we travel and live in the country when we're in the US, Perry won't even step in a puddle, let alone think about drinking it, and he's always closely supervised so we don't worry about it with him.

"Cousin Finley" (Scotty), on the other hand, even though we live in the same house in the US, is at much higher risk - he's constantly catching mice and field rodents... romping in swamps and ponds - so he gets an annual lepto shot. His mom generally splits them but even with that he does have a relatively mild reaction to it -- in his case though it brings him down to slightly less energy than a normal calm dog (he's usually super hyper and crazy) :). The vet automatically gives him a benadryl shot for all vaccines now.
 

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The vet automatically gives him a benadryl shot for all vaccines now.

Thank you for your reply. Is this something I should ask my vet to do with Maggie?
It is not necessary UNLESS the dog has a bad reaction. The whole point is to PREVENT bad reactions by not over-vaccinating.
 

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I would not give a Benadryl shot unless a bad reaction occurs. And if my dog had a reaction requiring a Benadryl shot they would never be given another vaccine for the rest of their life.
 

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I would not give a Benadryl shot unless a bad reaction occurs. And if my dog had a reaction requiring a Benadryl shot they would never be given another vaccine for the rest of their life.
Well a reaction to one vaccine doesn't necessarily mean a reaction to ALL vaccines... especially if it's a mild reaction. What happened to Mia was severe. What happened to Kodi was life threatening. Most vaccine reactions are MUCH milder.
 
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Well a reaction to one vaccine doesn't necessarily mean a reaction to ALL vaccines... especially if it's a mild reaction. What happened to Mia was severe. What happened to Kodi was life threatening. Most vaccine reactions are MUCH milder.
That may be true, but if a dog of mine has a severe (not necessarily life threatening) reaction to any vaccine, they will not receive another. Maybe if it could be proven that the response was specific to a certain ingredient in the vaccine, however I would be fearful that the immune system is telling me that鈥檚 enough. The next reaction may be bigger and badder. I agree though鈥ost dogs do fairly well with vaccines if they are not 鈥渙verdone鈥.
 

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That may be true, but if a dog of mine has a severe (not necessarily life threatening) reaction to any vaccine, they will not receive another. Maybe if it could be proven that the response was specific to a certain ingredient in the vaccine, however I would be fearful that the immune system is telling me that鈥檚 enough. The next reaction may be bigger and badder. I agree though鈥ost dogs do fairly well with vaccines if they are not 鈥渙verdone鈥.
Yes, when you are talking about the severe reactions, it鈥檚 a different ball game. My vet flatly refuses to vaccinate Kodi for ANYTHING. I鈥檓 good with that. From what you鈥檝e said about Mia鈥檚 long-lasting seizures, even though she didn鈥檛 require the hospitalization Kodi did, I鈥檓 betting she would put that in the same category.

But MOST reactions, if there is one, are more on the order of injection site soreness, general achiness, poor appetite, nausea, etc. that resolves within a short period of time on its own. The BIGGER problem than that sort of thing, IMO, is vaccinosis, which can be much more insidious. I strongly suspect that vaccinosis is behind Kodi鈥檚 allergies and IBD because you see that pattern time and again. But it hardly ever comes with a single (or even more than one) 鈥渂ad reaction鈥.

The reason that I don鈥檛 think a single 鈥渂ad reaction鈥 should make someone avoid ALL vaccines for their dog if vaccines are WARRANTED (not vaccines for vaccines sake) is that I know that humans can have a bad reaction to one vaccine and not another. I had a HORRIBLE reaction to the Shingrix vaccine, which I really had to get, (again, because of my immune status) But even though other people seem to have a hard time with the Covid vaccine, I really have not had any trouble with those at all. I have trouble having to be off my meds to get them, but not with the vaccine itself. Each vaccine is different. At least to some extent.
 
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