Boo had presumptive IBD, which was diagnosed based on an ultrasound and lab work at the age of 17. He did not tolerate a hydrolized protein diet, and ended up having to use Prednisone and Flagyl to control intestinal inflammation. It might be a good idea to adhere closely to the prescribed diet, if it works. That way you can avoid having to give any medications.
Vent
So current theory my vet has on Enzo's emerging stomach issue is that his brief bought of Giardia caused him to develop IBD, since he's responding well to a hydrolized diet now, and no longer having issues with vomitting and having diarrhea.
I'm relieved he's doing well and doesn't need more serious intervention. But i am so upset that this happened to him. I am beating myself up for letting him interact with other dogs but he loves doing it and I try to be as safe as possible.
For some reason I'm really torn up over the fact that the vet doesn't want him to eat any extra food, at all, besides his hydrolized protein. It's just breaking my heart, because Enzo is a bit of a foodie! He loves trying dog safe foods, he adores broccoli and peaches, for instance, and he's definitely a flavor seeker.
I also have extremely limited options on training treats. he will not work for kibble often. The only treats I found were these big hard biscuits. I have to saw them into tiny pieces with a serrated knife for training. I was so hoping to return to things like boiled chicken, liver, and cheese. I don't know if I can experiment at all to see what triggers a reaction in him, I don't want to make him sick. But I can't train him properly with these flavorless biscuits. He likes them okay, but they're not particularly high value.
I'm also just not certain if I should seek an actual diagnosis or just let it be what it is. I am not comfortable with having an invasive procedure done just to diagnose him when his quality of life is good. But I hate not knowing for sure.
I'm open to suggestions if anyone has them. I'm just so sad that this happened, it seems usually dogs recover well from giardia, we just got unlucky.
I'm relieved he's doing well and doesn't need more serious intervention. But i am so upset that this happened to him. I am beating myself up for letting him interact with other dogs but he loves doing it and I try to be as safe as possible.
For some reason I'm really torn up over the fact that the vet doesn't want him to eat any extra food, at all, besides his hydrolized protein. It's just breaking my heart, because Enzo is a bit of a foodie! He loves trying dog safe foods, he adores broccoli and peaches, for instance, and he's definitely a flavor seeker.
I also have extremely limited options on training treats. he will not work for kibble often. The only treats I found were these big hard biscuits. I have to saw them into tiny pieces with a serrated knife for training. I was so hoping to return to things like boiled chicken, liver, and cheese. I don't know if I can experiment at all to see what triggers a reaction in him, I don't want to make him sick. But I can't train him properly with these flavorless biscuits. He likes them okay, but they're not particularly high value.
I'm also just not certain if I should seek an actual diagnosis or just let it be what it is. I am not comfortable with having an invasive procedure done just to diagnose him when his quality of life is good. But I hate not knowing for sure.
I'm open to suggestions if anyone has them. I'm just so sad that this happened, it seems usually dogs recover well from giardia, we just got unlucky.
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Have you considered another opinion? Have you asked if a freeze dried raw diet might work? Could it be allergies and not IBD?
I suffer from IBD and as long as I stay away from roughage I do fairly well. If I eat “healthy” salads or quinoa, I pay dearly for it. So in my unscientific approach, it would seem logical that a freeze dried raw diet might work since it is closer to what dogs would eat in a natural state. A lot of dog food is filled with items a dog would not naturally eat.
Sometimes professionals stick to their routines and do not stray far from it because it is easier than thinking outside the box. I feel for you because my Scottie suffered from allergies and it was agonizing until we found that he could tolerate sweet potatoes and duck. He hated the “vet” prescribed food that we could only buy from the vet.
Good luck!
EDIT:
I feed my Havanese Stella & Chewy freeze dried puppy patties and he is doing really well on those.
I suffer from IBD and as long as I stay away from roughage I do fairly well. If I eat “healthy” salads or quinoa, I pay dearly for it. So in my unscientific approach, it would seem logical that a freeze dried raw diet might work since it is closer to what dogs would eat in a natural state. A lot of dog food is filled with items a dog would not naturally eat.
Sometimes professionals stick to their routines and do not stray far from it because it is easier than thinking outside the box. I feel for you because my Scottie suffered from allergies and it was agonizing until we found that he could tolerate sweet potatoes and duck. He hated the “vet” prescribed food that we could only buy from the vet.
Good luck!
EDIT:
I feed my Havanese Stella & Chewy freeze dried puppy patties and he is doing really well on those.
My vet wanted to put Molly on a prescription hydrolyzed diet after repeated episodes of diarrhea when she was younger. I told her I wanted to try a better quality, limited ingredient food first before going that route. Thankfully, Molly did well on it and we had no more issues. After a long period of time with no issues I eventually got her back to regular food. I find that vets are too quick to push the prescription foods at times and also never consider the possibility of coming off the food after the condition has settled down. My sister in law continues to feed a special food her vet put her dog on years ago after a GI episode, when her dog is fine now and could be eating a more nutritious food.
I'm inclined to be cautious, but in reality Enzo is young and his flare ups so far weren't too scary. He's lean but I don't think he is emaciated (hard to tell with all of his hair). So far his main issue was chronic soft stool/diarrhea after giardia and an episode of vomiting that lasted a couple of days, which settled down after a cerenia injection. He actually did really well on chicken and rice on those days. He never lost weight, got dehydrated, or had a crazy serious medical emergency.
I think I'm not quite ready to switch him off his prescription diet, but I'm not against very slowly and carefully introducing single ingredient novel/low fat proteins to keep track of what might trigger a flare up. I can also ask for a second opinion. I've joined a fb group for dogs with IBD and they may have some insight as well. Here's hoping it goes okay 🤞
Thankfully, if nothing works, he does like his hydrolized food enough to eat it.
I think I'm not quite ready to switch him off his prescription diet, but I'm not against very slowly and carefully introducing single ingredient novel/low fat proteins to keep track of what might trigger a flare up. I can also ask for a second opinion. I've joined a fb group for dogs with IBD and they may have some insight as well. Here's hoping it goes okay 🤞
Thankfully, if nothing works, he does like his hydrolized food enough to eat it.
My friend’s dog (goldendoodle) had chronic diarrhea for a couple of months and she ran the whole gamut of tests on him. Initially they said he had IBD but after more tests and time they came to the conclusion that he has extremely low B-12. He now gets the occasional B-12 injection and has normal stools and eats anything.
It may be worth it to get a second opinion at some point.
It may be worth it to get a second opinion at some point.
Vet recommended the B12 test since it's often a way to test for ibd. We are going to schedule for June.My friend’s dog (goldendoodle) had chronic diarrhea for a couple of months and she ran the whole gamut of tests on him. Initially they said he had IBD but after more tests and time they came to the conclusion that he has extremely low B-12. He now gets the occasional B-12 injection and has normal stools and eats anything.
It may be worth it to get a second opinion at some point.
I'm wondering if i should see an IM specialist or a nutritionist. I'm working with a limited budget though we do have insurance
The problem with these prescription diets is that I believe they were originally intended to be used temporarily and now have become a life sentence. Once they are on this stuff for a long period, it seems dog are unable to go back to regular food. I would not accept one of these diets myself unless I tried every food option available starting with raw which is the most digestible. For people totally opposed to raw, there is also fresh and freeze dried. Vets are NOT nutritional experts except in very rare cases. There is also the option of learning how to make your dogs food yourself. Enzo is too young to be sentenced to a lifetime of eating garbage which is basically what prescription diets are. If he has been given some gut destroying drugs like metronidazole it make take his gut longer to recover. Supplements like probiotics and digestive enzymes could be helpful. A holistic or integrative vet that has some knowledge of nutrition could be helpful but would be hard to find. There are enough quality foods in the market today that owners do not need to resort to junk food. A nutritionist could help too.
I sympathize with this..I think dogs that are older or have more severe presentations really may have to be on hydrolized only if it's what works but Enzo's stomach issues really aren't that bad. Other owners might not have even gone to the vet but I'm worrywart and I was sick of washing his bum off every other day. He did take metronidazole when he had giardia, aand i think the combo of that and the giardia really messed up his gut biome. Just a theory since I don't have any confirmed dx.The problem with these prescription diets is that I believe they were originally intended to be used temporarily and now have become a life sentence. Once they are on this stuff for a long period, it seems dog are unable to go back to regular food. I would not accept one of these diets myself unless I tried every food option available starting with raw which is the most digestible. For people totally opposed to raw, there is also fresh and freeze dried. Vets are NOT nutritional experts except in very rare cases. There is also the option of learning how to make your dogs food yourself. Enzo is too young to be sentenced to a lifetime of eating garbage which is basically what prescription diets are. If he has been given some gut destroying drugs like metronidazole it make take his gut longer to recover. Supplements like probiotics and digestive enzymes could be helpful. A holistic or integrative vet that has some knowledge of nutrition could be helpful but would be hard to find. There are enough quality foods in the market today that owners do not need to resort to junk food. A nutritionist could help too.
He did get into a tiny bit of my roommate's tiramisu the other day and he was surprisingly fine, so I don't know how bad his food intolerance really is, or if this was just temporary.
I will say on this new food he seems hungrier than usual and looks around the house for things to eat, so I feel bad that he's not feeling very full.
If a nutritionist is covered by insurance I'll try to book an appointment, if not I will have to wait a bit until I can save something up to see one.
Trying some freeze dried, raw or fresh food may be worth doing before resorting to a nutritionist. As others have said, switching to healthier food options has helped. In case you absolutely must feed prescription food, here is a healthier option vs the scary stuff that vets sell. It is good you are being observant and catching things early before you wind up with full blown issues. Just curious if you are using any of those flea pills? I believe they could cause some digestive distress not to mention tearing down the immune system.I sympathize with this..I think dogs that are older or have more severe presentations really may have to be on hydrolized only if it's what works but Enzo's stomach issues really aren't that bad. Other owners might not have even gone to the vet but I'm worrywart and I was sick of washing his bum off every other day. He did take metronidazole when he had giardia, aand i think the combo of that and the giardia really messed up his gut biome. Just a theory since I don't have any confirmed dx.
He did get into a tiny bit of my roommate's tiramisu the other day and he was surprisingly fine, so I don't know how bad his food intolerance really is, or if this was just temporary.
I will say on this new food he seems hungrier than usual and looks around the house for things to eat, so I feel bad that he's not feeling very full.
If a nutritionist is covered by insurance I'll try to book an appointment, if not I will have to wait a bit until I can save something up to see one.
he's been on simparica trio since his was young, but has always tolerated it fine. The gastric issues were something that appeared specifically after giardia/antibiotic treatment. I know some dogs have issues with the flea meds but I don't*think* that's what's causing his issuesTrying some freeze dried, raw or fresh food may be worth doing before resorting to a nutritionist. As others have said, switching to healthier food options has helped. In case you absolutely must feed prescription food, here is a healthier option vs the scary stuff that vets sell. It is good you are being observant and catching things early before you wind up with full blown issues. Just curious if you are using any of those flea pills? I believe they could cause some digestive distress not to mention tearing down the immune system.
The giardia treatment can destroy the gut. I wonder if anything was given afterwards like priobiotics or digestive enzymes to help with recovery? One of the reported side effects of Simparica Trio is digestive issues, whether they show up right away or not I don't know. It is a pesticide which your dog has to process and will be taxing on a dog trying to recover its gut health. It is like kicking someone when they are down IMO. Are ticks very bad where you live? Wonder if cutting it out would be helpful, although it does remain in the system for a very long time so that could take awhile to see results.he's been on simparica trio since his was young, but has always tolerated it fine. The gastric issues were something that appeared specifically after giardia/antibiotic treatment. I know some dogs have issues with the flea meds but I don't*think* that's what's causing his issues
We really don't get ticks here but we get a lot of skeeters and fleas.The giardia treatment can destroy the gut. I wonder if anything was given afterwards like priobiotics or digestive enzymes to help with recovery? One of the reported side effects of Simparica Trio is digestive issues, whether they show up right away or not I don't know. It is a pesticide which your dog has to process and will be taxing on a dog trying to recover its gut health. It is like kicking someone when they are down IMO. Are ticks very bad where you live? Wonder if cutting it out would be helpful, although it does remain in the system for a very long time so that could take awhile to see results.
He was on fortiflora during and following treatment and did try the hill's biome diet, which he initially did well on until he had a bout of blood in his stool & poor appetite that freaked me out, which is about when the vet switched us to purina HA.
Something I want to try is FMT. I think it could help a great deal to reestablish some gut flora that may help him get some normal stools back. I just don't know what kind of vet to see for that.
This website has some interesting products that I have heard good things about, however I have no personal experience with them.We really don't get ticks here but we get a lot of skeeters and fleas.
He was on fortiflora during and following treatment and did try the hill's biome diet, which he initially did well on until he had a bout of blood in his stool & poor appetite that freaked me out, which is about when the vet switched us to purina HA.
Something I want to try is FMT. I think it could help a great deal to reestablish some gut flora that may help him get some normal stools back. I just don't know what kind of vet to see for that.
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I agrree with MPM. While you say he tolerates it “just fine, you also say you have to clean his butt every other day. Those things don’t go together. I would DEFINITELY get that out of his system and PROVE to myself that it is not part of the problem before subjecting my dog to a life of hydrolyzed protein.he's been on simparica trio since his was young, but has always tolerated it fine. The gastric issues were something that appeared specifically after giardia/antibiotic treatment. I know some dogs have issues with the flea meds but I don't*think* that's what's causing his issues
I managed Kodi for 14 years with IBD and he never was on hydrolyzed protein. We found out which proteins he COULDN’T tolerate by doing a strict elimination diet, (although I suppose you could use the hydrolyzed protein food for that) then doing the Hemopet food sensitivity testing. After that, we kept him on a limited ingredient diet for the rest of his life. He did sensitize to different proteins over time, so we switched proteins as he did. But we were able to manage it and still keep him on good quality foods. And there were plenty of foods I could use for training treats!
I think vets turn immediately to the hydrolyzed protein food because it’s easy, and doesn’t require any sleuth work. Fortunately, my vet knew I was willing to do the work it took to find a more natural food that worked for Kodi, and she was willing to help me do that.
I know of so many cases of dogs that are itchy or have digestive issues which are both definite side effects of flea pills, yet the owners say they cause them no side effects. The proof is in the pudding I say. I would stop them and see for myself. One thing is for certain, the flea pills are not helping anything. The question is how much are they hurting.I agrree with MPM. While you say he tolerates it “just fine, you also say you have to clean his butt every other day. Those things don’t go together. I would DEFINITELY get that out of his system and PROVE to myself that it is not part of the problem before subjecting my dog to a life of hydrolyzed protein.
I managed Kodi for 14 years with IBD and he never was on hydrolyzed protein. We found out which proteins he COULDN’T tolerate by doing a strict elimination diet, (although I suppose you could use the hydrolyzed protein food for that) then doing the Hemopet food sensitivity testing. After that, we kept him on a limited ingredient diet for the rest of his life. He did sensitize to different proteins over time, so we switched proteins as he did. But we were able to manage it and still keep him on good quality foods. And there were plenty of foods I could use for training treats!
I think vets turn immediately to the hydrolyzed protein food because it’s easy, and doesn’t require any sleuth work. Fortunately, my vet knew I was willing to do the work it took to find a more natural food that worked for Kodi, and she was willing to help me do that.
The only vet I know who does it is a whack job…. I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but I wouldn’t go to her for ANYTHING. I also don’t think I would try that for what, in Enzo’s case, seems very mild.Something I want to try is FMT. I think it could help a great deal to reestablish some gut flora that may help him get some normal stools back. I just don't know what kind of vet to see for that.
Before Kodi’s was under control, he had screaming bloody diarrhea, and was crying in pain all night, pressing his belly against my lap trying to get relief, night after night, over and over again. It was NOT intermittent poopy butt. And my vet still didn’t recommend FMT… OTOH, there was the whack job aspect…
Good to know, I know it's a newer science and not necessarily well proven yet.The only vet I know who does it is a whack job…. I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but I wouldn’t go to her for ANYTHING. I also don’t think I would try that for what, in Enzo’s case, seems very mild.
Before Kodi’s was under control, he had screaming bloody diarrhea, and was crying in pain all night, pressing his belly against my lap trying to get relief, night after night, over and over again. It was NOT intermittent poopy butt. And my vet still didn’t recommend FMT… OTOH, there was the whack job aspect…
Oh sorry, I think I wasn't clear..He isn't having issues with his stool now, it was before we switched to HA.I agrree with MPM. While you say he tolerates it “just fine, you also say you have to clean his butt every other day. Those things don’t go together. I would DEFINITELY get that out of his system and PROVE to myself that it is not part of the problem before subjecting my dog to a life of hydrolyzed protein.
I managed Kodi for 14 years with IBD and he never was on hydrolyzed protein. We found out which proteins he COULDN’T tolerate by doing a strict elimination diet, (although I suppose you could use the hydrolyzed protein food for that) then doing the Hemopet food sensitivity testing. After that, we kept him on a limited ingredient diet for the rest of his life. He did sensitize to different proteins over time, so we switched proteins as he did. But we were able to manage it and still keep him on good quality foods. And there were plenty of foods I could use for training treats!
I think vets turn immediately to the hydrolyzed protein food because it’s easy, and doesn’t require any sleuth work. Fortunately, my vet knew I was willing to do the work it took to find a more natural food that worked for Kodi, and she was willing to help me do that.
I think I will try the elimination diet. He may do even better on other proteins. I may need to find a vet that's willing to help me figure this out.
Thank you for your insight, I really appreciate it. ❤
I think it is good to start with the basics. Eliminate toxins (flea pills), elimination diet, avoid processed foods (kibble) and add some support like probiotics and digestive enzymes. And have patience. The gut does not heal overnight.The only vet I know who does it is a whack job…. I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but I wouldn’t go to her for ANYTHING. I also don’t think I would try that for what, in Enzo’s case, seems very mild.
Before Kodi’s was under control, he had screaming bloody diarrhea, and was crying in pain all night, pressing his belly against my lap trying to get relief, night after night, over and over again. It was NOT intermittent poopy butt. And my vet still didn’t recommend FMT… OTOH, there was the whack job aspect…
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