Vent

I had a Rottweiler 25 years ago who had severe IBD. Prescription kibbles weren’t very advanced and limited ingredient diets were hard to come by. Commercial raw or cooked hadn’t been invented yet. LOL After doing a six-week elimination diet, I put her on a very limited ingredient, home cooked diet and she did extremely well on it for the rest of her life.

Although my poodle, Cali, didn’t have IBD, she did have very bad food allergies that caused diarrhea, vomiting, scratching, ear infections and hot spots. She was miserable. I tried limited ingredient kibble, Purina HA, commercial limited ingredient raw and homemade cooked. Nothing worked and some of them she wouldn’t even eat.

I moved to another city and my new vet suggested Royal Canin Anallergenic. The ingredients are crap, I think it’s made of chicken feathers, but Cali loved it. Within weeks, no more diarrhea or vomiting, hot spots gone, and scratching and ear problems were greatly reduced. Although I wasn’t thrilled with the ingredients in the food, it improved her quality of life so much, I would never have considered switching her off of it.

I think the point I’m trying to make is that you should feed the type of food that your dog does best on. Doesn’t matter if it is raw, cooked or kibble, your dog‘s comfort and quality of life is the most important thing. 😀

krandall said:

I think vets turn immediately to the hydrolyzed protein food because it’s easy, and doesn’t require any sleuth work.

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I have to share I had the opposite experience. At about age 3, Cassie started getting ichy and had diarrhea about every six weeks. My then vet ran through a lot, I mean alot of tests, including one that required the test to be shipped to a vet school in Texas. The tests kept coming back negative but the vet believed it was IBD, although not sure. We started down a list of limited ingredient foods with hydrolyzed about sixth on the list. i got tired of this trial and error approach and having to get allergy shots to deal with the itching. i switched to a then highly regarded pet hospital with specialists. The allergy specialist immediately said, put her on hydroloyzed immediately. Almost four years later, she never has diarrhea (unless she manages to get into someone elses food, cat or canine or human) and no more allergy shots…it was painful for her as well as me to go thru this. So hydrolyzed food may be the right answer, obviously not for everyone, but for some and it can be a life changer for the dog. As to taking her off, we tried when there was a shortage of it during pandemic and I will not put her thru that again!

I'm so sorry this happened to you and your boy, and haven't read all of the replies but I'll share our experience. My Sophie developed bad IBD at about a year old. She was very sick and we worked with a holistic vet for four years who had me home cooking for her, fresh whole food, using novel proteins that I bought at a (human) store near us that has everything imaginable, including python and alligator. She also got chinese herbs and supplements. But she kept getting worse it was just horrible. Finally she was having such horrific spasmic pain every day I literally was calling for an app't to put her down. She was 4 then. I kept begging our holistic vet for more help but she kept saying she wasn't in pain she was modeling off my own gut issues and that if I worked with anyone else she would no longer help us as it would "weaken what I do." She also at the point had gaslighted me into believing Sophie would be fine by the age of 6 if I stuck with her plan.

I have since learned a TON more about guts thru my own health issues and it now seems so freaking ridiculously stupid of me to have believed her and I'll NEVER forgive myself but I did keep trying with her.

At this point I told her I couldn't let her keep suffering like she was, she offered to take her home for 12 days which was nice of her but it turned out horrible. She told me she was doing just fine and would send me photos but her tail would be down which she never does unless sick or very stressed, and she said her tummy would gurgle and she would eat grass and regurgitated but that was "just her" and she was fine. I had told her the horrid spasms started early in the morning and would end in a few hours so was surprised she hadn't mentioned seeing that. But then one day she told me that every night she took Sophie out to their horse barn and left her in a crate all alone in the dark all night. She has horrid separation anxiety and claustrophobia and had never been left alone especially at night so the crate had to be pure torture for her! You can't crate a dog with those issues, some have had heart attacks, broken teeth and nails, even death. She told me that when she would go out to get her in the morning, she would have tipped the crate over upside down while still inside (it was a large size ruff tough kennel which weighed much more than she did) and she would have peed all over herself and spilled water on herself. Then she said "the only reason I am telling you this is because even through all that she is not having flares."

Well she wasn't watching her all night so she most likely did have those horrid excruciating episodes while they were in the house sleeping! Once they were done she looked fairly normal again so they wouldn't have known. I still can't bear to think of any of this. I will never get over it, I failed my girl.

When I brought her back home she was still having the terrible spasms so this "vet" told me it was because I worry about her (duh! She was suffering!) and that I needed to give her to a young healthy family with young healthy dogs and she would be fine. She kept telling me "you have to do what is right for the animal, not the human." I was beyond devastated. So we went to a local vet as a last ditch effort who put her on royal canin low fat canned (something I never would have considered feeding her) and her spasms stopped within 24 hours! It took her a year for her tummy to heal but now four years later (she's 8 now) she's 98% better no more spasms and has been for 3 years. We found out thru her internist that the spasms were from a functional ileus likely due to being so inflammed all the time. That is a hard thought for me to live with. But I thank God many times a day every day she is now tons better!

She does have IBD though which has totally changed our lives. Excitement, fun and stress can set her tummy off. So we had to stop everything, training, dog shows, nosework, playdates with other dogs, visiting people, traveling, etc. All the things she and I loved to do. I had to quit my pet photography business (I owed her at least that!) and havent visited family, friends, no holidays, I NEVER leave her other than if I have to go to a Dr and be put out where I can't take her with me, (I have to go to the Dr a lot for my own gut issues) I get a sitter for her even then she often has a bit of a flare at least but it's the best I can do for her. Like you, I can no longer give hre ANY food what soever other than her canned RC, which makes training next to impossible since it's canned an mushy plus she loves to train so much she gets very happy and so driven to work I'm afraid of flares there too. She's never remotely as bad as she used to be but the fear of it going bad again runs our lives. I hate I can't give her the life I planned but she doesn't know what she is missing and I try to make every minute the best I can for her.

I do now consult with a holistic vet online who is much better than the "other one" we just tried super super slowly transitioning her from the RC (as much as I hate to feed her this) to Rayne low fat kangaroo. It took me weeks starting at just a minuscule piece slowly building up to less than a teaspoon but she started showing me signs I am not positive it was from the food but I'm afraid to keep trying. So she'll likely be on RC from now on. She also can't tolerate most supplements and meds. A few days on tylosin once sent her to the ER and hospitalized for 3 days having the worst spasms she ever did. I almost lost her. So we don't try things and I pray will never need to.

At this point she has mild reflux which I give her pepcid for, her stool is often too loose except first of morning is firmer but it does't bother her. The loose stool means she can't clean out her anal glands so we have to go to vet once a month to get them expressed which is stressful for us both as she SCREAMS bloody murder when they do it even when they aren't very full. We went yesterday and the screaming was bad. I do give her CBD which helps some. She also gets gas X if gassy, and she does tolerate digestive enzymes. Everything else we've tried with this holistic vet (that I love, Dr Katie Woodley in Colorado) she hasn't been able to tolerate. She does seem to have down days which I imagine is gut related but she eats well, NEVER eats grass anymore, and she bounces back. We also go for a half hour run at the park daily. And play at home. But keeping her life as calm and uneventful as possible is the key.

I also have to be sure she never gets one crumb off the floor or at the park or she pays for it. We have tried many different foods, ways to be able to get out more, etc etc etc all have failed so I don't try anymore. Raw is usually not well tolerated by IBD dogs so you know, (some do ok on it), anything with fiber really gets Sophie (now that I know more, it was the fiber in the pumpkin that vet had me feeding her and the high oxalates in the fresh ground herbs she had me giving a ton of as the main culprits that was making her so sick. Plus those herbs!) Also what has helped her a ton is 3-4 smaller meals a day much easier to digest than fewer larger ones. And nothing but a small bit of canned food with her pepcid before bed. I also warm her food before she eats.

So I do empathize with you for the things you and your boy may have to give up (and he may not have to give up as much as we have they are all different some IBD dogs can do much more than we can without too bad of a reaction) but wanted to share our story in case anything resonates with you. It's been very hard giving up our social life, etc but 1000% worth it to have my baby feeling so much better.

I know the feeling of constantly "depriving" your dog of food they see, smell and watch you eat! I was faced with this after sharing a little bit of everything I ate that was dog friendly for 12+ years. Ellie is now 14 1/2 yrs old with no longevity threatening illnesses. OTOH she had loose to very loose stools, paw licking her whole life and eventually nausea that put her in a position of approaching her food bowl, sniffing, and turning away - no matter what was in it.

An ultrasound strongly suggested IBD with some major tissue damage. This was done after many rounds of Metronidazole and her rejection of several prescription diets after eating them for a few weeks. In my experience, vets must learn to say "allergy" before they say "hello". It is commonly the untested, unconfirmed explanation of every behavior and every discomfort a dog exhibits. And, confusingly to me, it's always a food allergy??

Ellie ate pretty much only raw until she was 8 yrs old. There started to be more frequent recalls. She was a healthy and energetic dog at the time who had never had a serious illness. I changed her to what I thought was high quality kibble with toppers from Stella and Chewy and others. All this time she also ate a little bit of almost everything I ate.

Suddenly, early in the pandemic she became listless and slept all the time. By now she was eating kibble and better quality canned food for more protein. In retrospect this was a big mistake on my part although the vets were perfectly happy with it. Pandemic vet care was limited and NYC was decimated. The explanations that she was getting older and that she gained 1 1/2 pounds were rather unlikely but she had no visible symptoms.

Then she developed very soft, occasionally loose, stools. Metronidazole and probiotics didn't work. Ultrasound strongly suggestive of IBD. This was the start of definitive vet recommendations that she had FOOD allergies to proteins. Various prescription diets showed only some improvement and Ellie always refused to eat each one after a week or two. I insisted on trying one of the human grade foods now available. My belief was that all regular dog foods including prescription ones, are made with many neutral to damaging ingredients. My vet said to try Just Food for Dogs Venison Stew because venison was a "novel" protein for her. She loved it, didn't tire of it in a week and there was more improvement - but not enough and I had grown uncomfortable with prescription diets full of weird stuff without even a definitive diagnosis.

By this time I was angry every time I heard the word "allergy" used to explain anything. I said I did not want to again try elimination diets - I wanted full allergy testing! Ellie ended up seeing a dermatology specialist, an internal medicine specialist and eventually a surgeon as well.

Ellie tested very positive to at least 30 airborne allergens including dust mites, cat dander, several kinds of trees and grasses (my windows face a large park), mold and many other things. Her nail beds were filled with a particular kind of yeast infection and she tested very allergic to this particular yeast. The dermatologist said Ellie probably has some food sensitivities as well but the testing indicates the need to treat her airborne allergies and keep aware if she shows sensitivity to a food. Because of other complications the allergy drops compounded were never used. I am however able to remove some of the airborne allergens and Ellie loves to sleep in front of the air filter I purchased.

The dermatologist also found a serious anal gland infection which proved resistant to all antibiotics. Ellie had a lifelong need to have her anal glands expressed regularly. This was always done by techs who may not have known enough or paid enough attention, to recognize that she had a chronic infection. Her anal glands were surgically removed and she is a lot more comfortable. For the first time in her 14 years she is happy to meet another dog who wants to check out her butt. And white blood cell count is normal.

The Internist did another ultrasound and recommended an endoscopy. The endoscopy confirmed "moderate IBD" and lymphangiectasia - a clogging of fats in the lymph ducts. Purina HA was recommended along with Prednisone 5mg and proviable. Since Ellie was eating only sporadically Cerenia was added. She also got Mirtazapine as an additional appetite stimulant. When Ellie arrived to see the specialists we was eating mostly Just Food for Dogs Venison. She never accepted Purina HA as her primary diet. We settled on the JFFD venison and HA vegetarian hydrolyzed kibble. I saw that when she didn't eat the prescription kibble, her stools were too soft but a mix seemed to work. The good news is that she's almost 15, runs around playing with her toys for short periods, is more friendly to other dogs and, most importantly, wags her tail happily very frequently! I almost never saw her tail wag for a bit over two years. She is taking only 2.5 mg of Prednisone and a probiotic. She never needs an appetite stimulant. All is well on 75% JFFD Venison Stew and 25% Purina HA Veg. kibble. I once tried another Just Food for Dogs food made with fish, not venison. I'm sorry to say she had an IBD flare up within two weeks - cause unknown, but JFFD fish, not a novel protein, the likely cause. The internist gave me a list of human foods that Ellie can eat and these work as treats and provide variety. Ellie loves strawberries, blueberries, apples, pears, carrots, kale, squash and they are ok for her.

IF I HAD IT TO DO AGAIN
I would never feed dog food unless it is human grade. Or I would cook my own as it's less expensive.
Ellie came from a pet store and probably came with her airborne allergies and the yeast infection on her nail beds.
I would see a specialist as soon as I felt I was getting a cookie-cutter answer from regular vets - especially if they
diagnosed food allergy without testing for foods and airborne allergens. The testing isn't
100% accurate - but it is objective with some laboratory science behind it.
I would try to stay away from all prescription diets. However, hydrolyzed protein, as in Purina HA
might have to be an exception. These proteins are easier to digest and that could be needed.
Keep up your insurance even when the yearly fee becomes very high and your dog is well. I couldn't have
paid for all the medical care Ellie needed this year if I didn't have insurance. And knowing that the insurance
would pay allowed me to say yes to testing, procedures and surgery with comfort when I needed comfort.

Kodi’s breeder also has not had other puppies with IBD. But I strongly suspect Kodi’s IS from over vaccinating, not by the Kings, but by me as a novice dog owner “listening to the vet” and “wanting to do the right thing to protect my puppy”.

Kodi’s IBD story differs SUBSTANTIALLY from Sophie’s in that he has specific diagnosed food sensitivities and other (non-food) allergies. He has a SEVERE LIFE THREATENING reaction to the rabies vaccine as well, so was on a vaccine waiver.

While his early bouts of IBD were very painful and difficult, we got them under control fairly quickly in the scheme of things, and he mostly lived a happy, healthy, an VERY active sprots dog life. He climbed mountains, went camping and to the beach, retired from Utility level obedience, still holds the highest level of achievement in World Cynosport Rally of ANY Havanese, and has held that spot for 7 or 8 years now, and was titled in Obedience, Rally AND Agility, in AKC and several other venues.

He ate a commercial limited ingredient diet for his entire life after dx, moving through a few different proteins as he “sensitized“ to one after another. (Common in “food sensitivity” dogs…) We tended to get 3 years, more or less, out of a protein before having to switch. He had one more protein left in his LI brand!!! I was ready for him to have another 3 years!!! 😢

We also found that he could eat a number of fresh cooked meats as treats, even some of the ones he had “sensitized” to earlier, as long as we were careful to avoid his worst triggers… NO fish, beef or dairy, EVER. Even tiny amounts and it would send his belly into spasms, followed by days of itching. Licking the face of another dog after THAT dog had eaten fish based kibble was enough to set him off. But there was a brand of frozen turkey meatballs (human) that we could count on for training treats, and pork roasts, cooked and cubed. Those were our main training treats. With roast chicken or turkey or duck rotated in.

He took Zyrtec and Tylosin daily, and we had Pepcid on hand and used it as needed, but usually no more than a couple of times a month. The problem was, when it hit, I had to either hold him, or crate him without any bedding until it passed. For some reason, he interpreted whatever happened in his stomach as needing to eat “stuff”. And unlike Sophie eating fairly innocuous grass, which can usually be vomited back up, he more than once got himself in trouble by swallowing non-edible things that he couldn’t pass in these states. So while I hated to do it to him, crating him was the safest thing for him.

Oh, and for times when it was REALLY bad, and I knew for sure that it was safe, I always had Cerenia on hand. But I never gave that without consulting with the vet first.

But he had much MUCH more “good” time than bad. He might have had times where he needed to be medicated and crated a handful of times a year. The “garbage eating” incidents were twice in his life. Otherwise, it took careful management, but we had a wonderful, fulfilling life together in spite of his IBD.

Thank you everyone for all the responses. I have been beside myself with anxiety and have been watching Enzo like a hawk. Thankfully his symptoms are mild and mostly controlled now with HA. I know I need to get testing done but I'm terrified of finding out the results. Not planning to biopsy at the moment as I find it is not worth the trouble.

I'm just so saddened that he is dealing with what could be a chronic condition so early in life.

None of his breeder's dogs have this issue either. It seems to have been triggered mostly by giardia.

I'm of course in denial and hoping that he just had a little bit of tummy upset just from eating something he shouldn't or stress but I know that isnt going to help anyone.

I'm still terrified it will get bad or show its ugly head, but I know I need to just enjoy the dog in front of me and take everything in stride when I can.

He's just such a happy and playful guy, I would hate to see us have to stop activities that he genuinely enjoys.

Once I got my Rottweiler, Maggie’s, IBD under control with diet, around the age of 4, she didn’t get any worse. She lived to 13 1/2, which is an excellent age for this breed. She would have the occasional flare up, usually brought on by her somehow managing to get hold of something off her limited diet. A course of Flagyl would usually sort her out.

Maggie was still able to have treats, usually fruit or vegetables. She loved apples, carrots and oranges. You’ll need to keep treats exceedingly low in fat and protein which is why fruit and veggies worked. When you come to try to introduce a treat, you need to start with the tiniest bit possible and add a tiny bit more each day, monitoring for any symptoms. It can take up to two weeks to get to the size you plan to use. You could also try dehydrating some canned HA into little treats. I think we feel worse about the dog’s limited diet than they do. 😉

I never did get any biopsies done on Maggie. Based on her symptoms and the breed predilection for IBD, my vet was confident that was what she had. It didn’t make any difference to me exactly what kind of IBD it was.

CarolineS said:

Once I got my Rottweiler, Maggie’s, IBD under control with diet, around the age of 4, she didn’t get any worse. She lived to 13 1/2, which is an excellent age for this breed. She would have the occasional flare up, usually brought on by her somehow managing to get hold of something off her limited diet. A course of Flagyl would usually sort her out.

Maggie was still able to have treats, usually fruit or vegetables. She loved apples, carrots and oranges. You’ll need to keep treats exceedingly low in fat and protein which is why fruit and veggies worked. When you come to try to introduce a treat, you need to start with the tiniest bit possible and add a tiny bit more each day, monitoring for any symptoms. It can take up to two weeks to get to the size you plan to use. You could also try dehydrating some canned HA into little treats. I think we feel worse about the dog’s limited diet than they do. 😉

I never did get any biopsies done on Maggie. Based on her symptoms and the breed predilection for IBD, my vet was confident that was what she had. It didn’t make any difference to me exactly what kind of IBD it was.

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I am not sure why low in fat or protein. Low in fat for dogs prone to pancreatitis, and certainly no dog needs a lot of fat. But I was never told to go EXTRA low in fat for Kodi. In fact, the protein that h was on for the longest was lamb, which is relatively high in fat in comparison to some others. And I was also nevertold that he should be on a low protein diet. When, on occasion, we were not able to get his limited ingredient food, we would substitute Stella and Chewy’s freeze dried Raw in whatever protein he was eating at the time, and he did fine on that, because it was, essentially just ONE ingredient, with nothing else to bother his tummy. Hard to get higher protein than freeze dried raw.

He also ALWAYS used whole roasted meats (or the frozen turkey meatballs I mentioned) as training treats. Always smal pieces, of course, Havanese are small dogs. But again, as long as we stuck to foods he didn’t have problems with, he did fine. Blueberries were fine, and a HIGH value treat. Apples, interestingly, would sed him into spasms pretty quickly. He LOVED all veggies, but not all loved him. Over time, we learned which ones he could tolerate i small quantities as a treat.

krandall said:

I am not sure why low in fat or protein.

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I was talking only about treats, not the main diet. I should have been more specific about the type of fat. If a dog isn’t on any kind of medication to help manage the inflammation or the diarrhea, and is being managed purely through diet, I found it helpful to watch the level of omega 6 fatty acids. Omega 6 fatty acids are pro inflammatory to a gut that is already prone to inflammation. The main diet usually contains the right ratio of omega 6:3 so I always felt it prudent not to rock the boat and try and add more omega 6 in the treats I fed. Omega 6 fatty acids are found mainly in animal products.

With respect to protein in treats, since dogs with IBD are usually prone to food sensitivities, I always fed treats that didn’t contain complete proteins, like fruit and vegetables. Since they tend to be lower in protein overall, in my mind I always think of them as “low protein”. I knew which complete proteins my dog was sensitive to and didn‘t want to take a chance on using yummier novel proteins in treats in case I needed one of them for her main diet one day!

Not all fruit and vegetables work though that quite often is a result of fiber content. IBD dogs have varying levels of tolerance for fiber. As I mentioned, it is wise to introduce any new treats exceedingly slowly, starting with teeny bits and very slowly building up, monitoring for the slightest sign of upset. By the time you get it all figured out, you’ll have a degree in “poopology”. 😉

That was my approach to managing Maggie’s IBD and it was very successful. Because IBD is so common in Rottweilers, there was always a lot of discussion about it on forums I belonged to. I learned that every dog with IBD is different and has different tolerances so diet is very individual. With all of us posting what worked well for our dogs, hopefully there will be some pointers to help Enzo. 😀