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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 10 wk old baby girl and she sleeps in the crate at night. She cried around 7 am and I let her out to pee on her pee pad. She went back to bed in her crate and we woke up around 8:30 am when she started whining again. I took her out and to the potty place but after coming off of it to jump up and looking like she wanted to play, I redirected her to it, and she walked around, sat on it, and then just laid on it to rest. After a couple more tries, I put her back in her crate and she settled down a few minutes but then whined loud again so I took her out of the crate and brought her to the potty area and same routine - jumping, walked on potty tray, sat on it, and laid on it. This happened about 4 times up until 9 am where I had to take a conference call. I went to an adjacent room for no more than 8 mins. so I could talk in peace, while she was crying in the other room. After I talked on my call, I muted, went back to the room and she had pooped in the corner of her crate. :(

Is there something I should have done differently?

This happened in her ex-pen yesterday with pee. We've made the area as small as possible with pine pellets, pee pad, bed, and a few small toys. There was only about a 12" by 6" area in the ex-pen not occupied by anything since the size of the litter box and pee pad holder doesn't allow the pen to bend all the way. I went to the kitchen (for less than 5 mins) and found out she peed in that little area.

And just now, I went to the kitchen to wash my hands and get her food, and she whined and cried and I saw she pee'd a little on the edge of her bed. That was also under 5 mins. I was gone.

It's like she is doing this in retaliation for leaving her alone. Any help will be grateful appreciated!
 

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Puppies never EVER potty ”in retaliation”. That is not in their repertoire. It’s not clear to me how you have your pen set up. Can you show us a photo? Have you talked to your breeder about how the puppy was set up for successful pottying at their home before you took her home. Trying to replicate that as closely as possible for the first week or so is often likely to be the most successful, assuming to breeder worked on good potty training skills.
 
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Puppies never EVER potty ”in retaliation”. That is not in their repertoire. It’s not clear to me how you have your pen set up. Can you show us a photo? Have you talked to your breeder about how the puppy was set up for successful pottying at their home before you took her home. Trying to replicate that as closely as possible for the first week or so is often likely to be the most successful, assuming to breeder worked on good potty training skills.
That is good to know! Just seems to happen when we leave the room for a short while. I know the breeder is busy with a new litter and I have a couple outstanding questions with her. I'll try to contact her again today but figured I would get a faster response here. Here is the sleeping crate and I circled where she pooped when I left the room for less than 10 mins. Her potty tray is to the left. She pee'd at 12 am and again at 7 am and like I said I took her out multiple times between 8:30 and 9 am when she whined but seemed like all she wanted to do was play or lay on the tray when I would put her on it. I put her back in her crate before my call and left the room at 9 am and came back around 9:08 - to 9:10 am and she had pooped in the 2 places I circled.

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Here is a the ex-pen this morning when I brought her down for her feeding. While she has her feeding, I clean the pee pad crate and put it in after she eats. This pic was taken after she pee'd and after her feeding so things got shifted around after she jumped around and was crying when I left the room briefly which is why there are pellets everywhere.

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Is there something obvious I'm missing? If not, I will contact the breeder today to find out what the set-up is. We love her so much but not sure what we are doing wrong. :(
 

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Probably not in retaliation, but out of anxiety about being alone without anyone/other dogs.
Although I have not done indoor potty, my dog was trained that way and the breeder was a fan of it.
First few times, I left him alone for a few minutes, he had accidents in his crate even though he did not have to go. I blame it on separation anxiety. It took a couple weeks of being left alone to end it. I think that he lost control of his bladder/bowels over the anxiety of being alone for probably the first times in his life. He was 10 months old when I got him and lived with the breeder/indoor potty/all of her dogs.
He is now 4 yrs. and doesn't have this issue now. But he hates to be alone, we are working on it. His fear of being alone came back with the pandemic and me being home more than ever. I make sure I leave him alone every day for short amounts of time and am using a calming spray.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Probably not in retaliation, but out of anxiety about being alone without anyone/other dogs.
Although I have not done indoor potty, my dog was trained that way and the breeder was a fan of it.
First few times, I left him alone for a few minutes, he had accidents in his crate even though he did not have to go. I blame it on separation anxiety. It took a couple weeks of being left alone to end it. I think that he lost control of his bladder/bowels over the anxiety of being alone for probably the first times in his life. He was 10 months old when I got him and lived with the breeder/indoor potty/all of her dogs.
He is now 4 yrs. and doesn't have this issue now. But he hates to be alone, we are working on it. His fear of being alone came back with the pandemic and me being home more than ever. I make sure I leave him alone every day for short amounts of time and am using a calming spray.
Sorry I should have worded it that way, not retaliatory as in "I'll show them" but as a response to being left alone. Yes, I feel so bad to leave her alone in another room and can imagine how stressful it is for her to have to leave her mom and littermates. However, I haven't been eating properly since I've been grabbing quick snacks in the kitchen rather than cooking food because she will whine and cry and likely have an incident if she can't see me. And I could never leave the house to run a quick errand. At night, I've been playing this puppy sleep music I found on YouTube which seems to work. How is the calming spray work for you and your little one?
 

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That is good to know! Just seems to happen when we leave the room for a short while. I know the breeder is busy with a new litter and I have a couple outstanding questions with her. I'll try to contact her again today but figured I would get a faster response here. Here is the sleeping crate and I circled where she pooped when I left the room for less than 10 mins. Her potty tray is to the left. She pee'd at 12 am and again at 7 am and like I said I took her out multiple times between 8:30 and 9 am when she whined but seemed like all she wanted to do was play or lay on the tray when I would put her on it. I put her back in her crate before my call and left the room at 9 am and came back around 9:08 - to 9:10 am and she had pooped in the 2 places I circled.

View attachment 174024

Here is a the ex-pen this morning when I brought her down for her feeding. While she has her feeding, I clean the pee pad crate and put it in after she eats. This pic was taken after she pee'd and after her feeding so things got shifted around after she jumped around and was crying when I left the room briefly which is why there are pellets everywhere.

View attachment 174025


Is there something obvious I'm missing? If not, I will contact the breeder today to find out what the set-up is. We love her so much but not sure what we are doing wrong. :(
OK, well, her crate is too large for now. It should be JUST large enough for her, without much extra space. So that is the problem there. If you don’t want to buy another crate, you can take up the extra space with big boxes, or something like that, though she may chew on them.

I would turn your litter box the other way, so there is ONLY room for the litter box and the bed in the ex-pen, since you are having some trouble. Some puppies would do just fine with this little bit of extra space. But if you are having trouble, take away the extra space.
It’s not uncommon for puppies to need a bit of extra work when they get to their new home. Here is a photo of Panda in “puppy jail” when she needed some “remedial potty training after a UTI” to show you the set-up. Fill EVERY available space. And I’d get a real bed rather than a flat crate pad, so it was less easily confused with something to potty on.
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The spray seems to be working. Either that or he has resigned himself to the idea that I will be going out for a short time every afternoon.
Whenever he figured out that I would be leaving, he'd glue himself to his bed in another room and shake. Refuse to go out and potty or be tempted with a treat even.
Now he is behaving much better when I am going to leave.
 

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Also- I had planned to use pellets (and still will eventually), but am finding the covered pad set up helpful because I can easily identify fresh pee (blue spots). It smells a bit, but that’s probably helpful for puppies to find the right spot to go.
You can very easily tell peed-on pellets from fresh because they puff up and disintegrate into sawdust. If a puppy is trained to litter and you swith to a pee pad, you are adding an unnecessary complication. It MIGHT not make a difference, but it might confuse them. Also, many puppies who have been raised to keep their area very clean find peed-on pads that smell very aversive, and will not use them at all. Many people here have been very frustrated that they have to change pee pads the minute a puppy pees on them ONCE or the puppy won’t use the tray again. Just a warning...
 

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Here's another angle of the crate which is already sectioned off. I will try to section off more but since it's a 2 door system - think it will have to cover part of the door - maybe just 2 extra sections shorter? She likes to sleep in this position (precious pic attached). :)
Agree about the bed - the bed cover is currently in the wash now!
I have a call with the breeder now so will get some more info. Thanks everyone for your helpful tips to get me thru the morning!

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Just had a lovely conversation with the breeders and from now on will keep her in her smaller Petmate Varicrate at night instead of the wired crate and then let her out to pee. For when I'm in calls, I should have went downstairs and use the wire crate WITHIN the ex-pen and keep the door open so she can poop or pee when needed while I was gone. I still plan to make the crate a tiny bit smaller so thanks for that advice!

The breeder also gave advice about soothing yoga music they are used to and to throw some kibble in her ex-pen when I leave the room so she can search for it and be distracted. This should give me a few extra minutes to use the bathroom. :D

Also, another funny story - I had Glow set-up for bed in her crate and she was settling down last night. I had to use the bathroom and get some water from downstairs but she cried as I left the room. I figured she would settle down herself. As I was filling my water jug downstairs, I could hear her crying and howling like crazy. I figured she would settle down any second and of course my water jug took forever to fill. She was still going at it. Well I came upstairs and since it was 75 degrees here yesterday, I realized I still had my bedroom window open (but curtains drawn). I was mortified because I'm sure my neighbors heard EVERYTHING! They probably thought I was torturing this poor thing with all the crazy sounds she was making. I was so embarrassed and hope I don't see them today! :oops:
 

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You can very easily tell peed-on pellets from fresh because they puff up and disintegrate into sawdust. If a puppy is trained to litter and you swith to a pee pad, you are adding an unnecessary complication. It MIGHT not make a difference, but it might confuse them. Also, many puppies who have been raised to keep their area very clean find peed-on pads that smell very aversive, and will not use them at all. Many people here have been very frustrated that they have to change pee pads the minute a puppy pees on them ONCE or the puppy won’t use the tray again. Just a warning...
For me there are times I can't tell because she will literally go a teaspoon (maybe anxious pee'ing) at times. There are times I will reward her when she gets into pee position and looks like she pee'd in the pine pellet litter box but when I go back to look I don't see anything, LOL! I definitely can tell shortly after she has her meals and water bowl, because it's a larger amount but for other times in-between, I can't tell.
I'll keep using both the pellets and the pee pads for now once I can figure out her schedule. So far she's using the pellets for the poop (there I can definitely tell)! :D
 

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Glow is adorable! I hope she gets her potty figured out soon!
The howling that comes out of these little bundles of hair is amazing. Shadow did that too whenever I'd leave the room for a minute. And could keep it up endlessly if I'd be gone longer. I think they work themselves up into a frenzy and lose control. She'll get over it. Maybe get a spare set of bedding or two?
 

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Thank you, @Tere! Who knew those little vocal cords could make so much noise! :LOL: Good idea, on the bedding. Looking today!

@strawberry - your little one's bed looks pretty cozy. I'm looking for a rectangular bed instead of the oval one I have so I can fit it in crates and ex-pen better. Can I ask which one you use? I can't tell if your ex-pens is bigger or same size as mine? I have the 24" one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QFWCJ6/
 

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Just had a lovely conversation with the breeders and from now on will keep her in her smaller Petmate Varicrate at night instead of the wired crate and then let her out to pee. For when I'm in calls, I should have went downstairs and use the wire crate WITHIN the ex-pen and keep the door open so she can poop or pee when needed while I was gone. I still plan to make the crate a tiny bit smaller so thanks for that advice!

The breeder also gave advice about soothing yoga music they are used to and to throw some kibble in her ex-pen when I leave the room so she can search for it and be distracted. This should give me a few extra minutes to use the bathroom. :D
Ahhh! This is Glow! And she is a Starborn pup! Alway, always, ALWAYS call Pam if you are struggling. She is ALWAYS will ing to help if you are struggling, and she always has good advice on how to handle transitioning her pups to their new homes! 💗
 

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For me there are times I can't tell because she will literally go a teaspoon (maybe anxious pee'ing) at times. There are times I will reward her when she gets into pee position and looks like she pee'd in the pine pellet litter box but when I go back to look I don't see anything, LOL! I definitely can tell shortly after she has her meals and water bowl, because it's a larger amount but for other times in-between, I can't tell.
I'll keep using both the pellets and the pee pads for now once I can figure out her schedule. So far she's using the pellets for the poop (there I can definitely tell)! :D

If she squats and you THINK she peed, it does no harm to praise her, whether there is "proof of pee" or not. ;)
 

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Glow is adorable! I hope she gets her potty figured out soon!
The howling that comes out of these little bundles of hair is amazing. Shadow did that too whenever I'd leave the room for a minute. And could keep it up endlessly if I'd be gone longer. I think they work themselves up into a frenzy and lose control. She'll get over it. Maybe get a spare set of bedding or two?
Oh, yes!!! Everyone should DEFINITELY have multiple sets of bedding, IMO, no matter what the age of the dog. Even with my fully adult dogs, I change bedding every time my dogs get a bath, which requires that the dirty ones go through the wash, and you never know when someone is going to get sick or something.

Also, as Mudpuppy Mama has pointed out, the best way to avoid fleas is not to allow fleas a place to reproduce. That means that even if you aren't washing your DOGS as frequently as I do, their BEDDING should be being washed AT LEAST weekly, in hot water, then dried in the drier. That means not only their crate pads, but any place they sweep around the house. If more people did that, they would need a lot less flea chemicals!
 
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And as you can see in the photo I sent, she’s in there sleeping even with the crate door open and the donut bed as an option. Seems the crate, though it seems uncomfortably small to me, is just right for her when she wants to sleep
That is pretty typical. They LIKE the feeling of being enclosed and "safe" when they are sleeping... even as adult dogs.
 

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There are times I will reward her when she gets into pee position and looks like she pee'd in the pine pellet litter box but when I go back to look I don't see anything, LOL!
Honestly I don’t think this hurts! Sometimes I would tell Sundance “go potty,” just in case, and he would look at me and try so hard to go, and nothing would come out. I always told him what a good boy he was for trying so hard, lol. It was also worth it because there were so many times when I would tell him to “go potty” again, or soon after he’d gone, and more pee did come out!

I think you have been given really great advice. I also think the suggestions on moving her to allow access to the potty tray are good because your early morning description reminded me of Sundance before we figured out he really needed to circle to go poop twice! He grew out of this, I think it was developmental. He just couldn’t get it all out at once. If he only pooped once, we’d have to take him back out again 20 minutes later, and then he’d have to pee again, too. So many things I never thought I’d say about puppy poop ;) If mine had access to the potty tray in the early morning I think we would have figured that out sooner. I ended up adding another potty tray upstairs for the early morning and it did help, although not so much with the poop because he mostly used the litter box for pee.
 

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Also- I had planned to use pellets (and still will eventually), but am finding the covered pad set up helpful because I can easily identify fresh pee (blue spots). It smells a bit, but that’s probably helpful for puppies to find the right spot to go.
If you can’t easily see the powder the pellets might be too thick. I noticed if they were too thick the pee would sink to the bottom and the pellets on top would stay formed, but when I moved them around there was powder underneath. It’s fine for the pellets to be thick if you want it that way, but if it helps you to be able to see when there’s pee, thinning them out might help. It could be the brand or type of wood pellets I used, because I haven’t heard it mentioned often and it took me a while to figure out.
 

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I also have a hard time sometimes telling if Mando has peed. He generally doesn't squat to pee or poop. I'll try the thinner layer of pellets. I might have to get a litter box with grates soon though. When he gets excited, he jumps around in his litter box and kicks pellets everywhere. I imagine that he might step on any pee that has pooled on top of the grates though. Then again, he sometimes accidentally gets pee on his paws now anyway.

He's also gotten a little too comfortable in his litter box and started laying down in it for some reason....but that's a whole other ball of wax that we're trying to address right now.
 
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